“Sell Out Saturday, show everyone the SPL doesn’t need the Old Firm to thrive”. Discuss.
You have to admire the Aberdeen fans, and fans of every other club in the league, even Kilmarnock fans, who are clearly infuriated by the actions of their chairman. For perhaps the first time in history they have stood up to their clubs and football administrators and effected real and genuine change in our game.
Aberdeen fans produced this Sell-out Saturday graphic, urging people to “show everyone the SPL doesn’t need the Old Firm to thrive”. By ‘Old Firm’ I am sure they don’t mean the cash-cow rivalry Celtic had with Rangers, they mean without Rangers, and without Celtic too.
For every other club in the SPL, Celtic are now their most precious visiting brand. For fans of every other club in the SPL, Celtic are a competitive irrelevance. This season our income is likely to be greater than that of every other club in the league. We pay superstar wages while, for the most part, they pay real world footballers real world compensation.
In short, the SPL doesn’t need the SPL to thrive. The clubs may (or may not) believe they need Celtic to pay bills, but recent events have demonstrated that might not be the case.
There is another problem to consider. If the SPL keeps Celtic, in a decade or so they will have Newco-Rangers, and the whole dysfunctional business will start all over again. Kick Celtic out now and Newco-Rangers will never materialise in the manner it would if Celtic remained.
SPL fan power has one more club to sort out.
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Clashcitybhoy on 21 July, 2012 at 21:51 said:
The great thing about friendlies is that they allow Lenny to try out players in formations that we wouldn’t normally play without costing points. I’m sure NASA engineers are in tears every time they test fire a multi-lillion dollar rocket that they spent months building, but they know it has to be done to check that they are getting it right or if it could be done different. They always learn something about their designs that help them make the next one better.
You can’t make an omelette without breaking eggs. :)
Hail Hail!
Bookie
@MTHForum: Forum Post – lol http://t.co/jqjSvEwv – Click to Respond
67Heaven … I am Neil Lennon..!!.. Ibrox belongs to the creditors on 21 July, 2012 at 22:15 said:
It’s just one astonishing decision after another. Where else can you say to your governing body, “We know we’ve broken the rules and we’ve been caught, but we’re not having that punishment, try something else.”
TGCW/Doc
We set up away at Fir Park towards the end of the season in a 3-5-2 formation. Most of us there that day were surprised to say the least. Young Tony Watt brought home the points but the team seemed uncomfortable with it. However, there was a reason for it and that was because NL wanted to play it the following week at Ibrox. It didn’t work there either.
We had some great performances and results after that playing the same system but I always felt that defensively we looked vulnerable and fragile.
When Mon played this system he had the back 3 playing close together with 2 quick wing backs.
When we tried it last season it was a rigid 3-5-2 with no real prospect of becoming a 5-3-2 when required to defend. Unless it changes then the 3 at the back in the current system are too far apart and far too easy to pass through.
Just my opinion of course.
Tiny Tim.
I back you up.
For me the ultimate point is this. There will be teams like Cluj and Metallist who make the group stages. There will be the Basels Rosenborgs and Genks who live on crowds of 10-20k and are also deprived of TV riches. Maybe I’m old fashioned, but I still see Celtic FC as a big name who should be achieving much more in Europe. The one major criticism I will throw at the board is the same one I called 7 years ago..Lack of ambition. Sometimes I think they dont deserve the fantastic support they get. And as was said earlier, they are getting treated like, and getting more like the Tartan Army.
hh
Just logged on! Been up in the hills all day and have just found out the score. Gawd that is bad! That is really an awful result and the press will have a field day – we’ve just given them a bit of a feelgood factor after weeks of them scratching around for something to take a pop at us with.
I see it was 3 at the back!! Perhaps if Lenny has been impressed with Barca then perhaps, just perhaps, it is understandable him wanting to try it… and there is no point in trying it against a wee diddy team but jeezo, 4 – 0. I trust that is the experiment completed. To be honest, I think Lenny should have known better though. An experiment, perhaps; a confidence booster, no way.
women love them HH
hamiltontim on 21 July, 2012 at 22:25 said:
3-5-2 gives great attacking options, Agathe was used to great effect by MON, it was exposed by pacey wide men. As always a system works until someone finds a way around it.
4-5-1 is the way forward at present, 4-3-3 if attacking.
3-5-2 was used
Ast season, and may well be this, but against teams that won’t or can’t expose the spaces in the wide attacking areas.
3sleeps til the Norwich game!
Ast season, sorry last season.
twists n turns on 21 July, 2012 at 22:13 said:
You’re right. We probably could be doing better with our income. But given the upheaval in recent months, I think those responsible for a five year plan can be forgiven if they appear unsure how this is all going to pan out.
At this moment in time I think a positive attitude is very important, but some new thinking on scouting and being less wasteful on and off the pitch is in order.
Pen
Listening to the Stone Roses first album,never liked them much since I was young,the good thing about maturity is that it helps you appreciate quality and I’ll tell you what,what a smashin’ album it is,lately I’ve took to just unconsciously putting it on,I don’t even know what half the songs are called they just melt into one another with a few exceptions that snap you out of its induced daydream and make you think what the hell took me so long to get into this?
Division 3 or nante,life isn’t bad gentlemhen.
Paul67
When we play Hibs on 9th Feb after rangers entered administration it wasn’t a big love in.
I’ll alway remember the banner in the Gome end “One down One to go!”
SPL woud be a fantastic competition without a team from Glasgow.
Doc
Yep the next game is the most important!!
1987 August Parkhead
Celtic 1 Arsenal 5
We all know what happened next :-)
hamiltontim on 21 July, 2012 at 21:59 said:
praecepta on 21 July, 2012 at 21:54
I know what you’re saying but in the long run will it not do this young team real benefits getting the opportunity to play against this class of player?
____________________________
You know me – I am old school – we don’t do friendlies!
Man Utd 1968 had just won the EC – Best, Charlton, Law etc – gubbed 4-0!
We need to strike a balance – no point playing a ‘high-class’ friendly on the back of what was no more than 3 bounce games. Experimenting with tactics and personnel whilst searching for core fitness is a recipe for disaster – I very much doubt the players or management will have learned anything constructive from this evening. The entire axis of how we play in the SPL swings when we play in Europe – no 70% possession, no camped in the opposition half (or last third), no cigars and deckchairs at the back.
In view of recent events – we knew we have 4-5 years (minimum) run at the CL (and the financial benefits) – we should have addressed an earlier start and lower profile games as a run-up to the; Ajax, Inter and Real games.
We have the pool of players to accommodate an earlier start – no reason not to allow ‘time-off’ (7-10 days) for various players at later stages in the season (International weeks) – we should be able to cope without 2 or 3 players against lesser opposition in the league and early rounds of the cup.
I agree we need the glamour game income – however, if we continually fail to turn-up then those offers might not be so forthcoming.
TinyTim on 21 July, 2012 at 21:57 said:
I have never known anyone to go to an away friendly, anywhere, for the football. The football is the excuse for the destination and/or getting pee’d and the hope of a right good time rep and post match.
In fact I had a mate who went to a good few european friendlies and either never went to the match or couldn’t even remember the game despite being there.
Chill out mate. I’d swap places with you right now no bother! :)
Book
HT
All that matters is the team is together and up to speed come the qualifier and the Aberdeen game. I used to go to pre season games in expectation, now, it’s just to see how the team are progressing towards the start of the season.
BTW, we missed the passing of Ki in midfield tonight and the power and running of Samaras. Kelvin Wilson played well when he came on.
Lennon n Mc
Keep playing it. I bought that album and the Happy Mondays Bummed on the same day, I think they came out on the same day and don’t think I left the house for about a week. The music had been crap for years. There is a dance mix of the roses that is superb.
kitchenskankingcsc
praecepta on 21 July, 2012 at 22:43 said:
I think that might have been 1966.
Guten morgen.
I was always an advocate of the 4-5-1 formation,ever since that day in January when we turned the Zombies upside-down at their own midden.
Unfortunately in my opinion,Ki was/is central to the success of the said set up.
As an alternative though,i suggest Lenny adopts this starting line up for the CL qualifying rounds:
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: FF ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
::::::: Matthews ::::::::::::::: Rogne :::::::::::: Chuck :::::::::::::::::: Emilio :::::::::
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 67 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
::::::: Brown :::::::::::::::::::: Kayal ::::::::::::: JL :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Commons ::::::::::::::::
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Smaras :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
No Hoops,Stokesy or wee Jamesy,but that’s just the way it is.
This team selection will see us through to the group stages.
Cntd….Just remembered! My mate once had to ask one of the guys what the score had been next day at breakfast. But you were there!!!! he said. Aye but I’ve no idea what the score was!!!!!!! :))))))))))
Blazer
Doc , bookies pen
Agreed , a lesson learned.
I suspect if it was a competitive game , we would have been a wee bit more agressive , which may have slowed Ajax down.
In competitive games, we have a decent record v s Ajax , but it is poor in friendlies
celt55 on 21 July, 2012 at 22:46 said:
praecepta on 21 July, 2012 at 22:43 said:
I think that might have been 1966.
_______________
Getting on for 50 years ago now – memory might be fading with dates (lack of CRC quiz nights)! :-)
Back then we didn’t take prisoners – Spurs 3-3, Real Madrid 1-0 etc etc.
praecepta on 21 July, 2012 at 22:43
Hard to disagree with most of what you say.
However, I’d be concerned if the players and management haven’t learned anything from today. I can accept the defeat and even the scoreline but the by product must be the benefits of developing through the lessons learned.
16 Roads to G
With Ki (if we’ve still got him) and Hooper ready to come on. I’d forget about wee Jamesy completely for now. If we get a hamstring at the back we’re goosed though.
Celtic hinted heavily and immediately as soon as ‘they’ were definitely out the SPL of ‘the difficult times ahead for us all’ retrospectively you could be forgiven for concluding now that that meant there would be no net spend. If there’s one thing we do, and do well, is fail to speculate with money, or put another way, aspire to better results in Europe.
The situation of unloading unwanted players is the top priority, why haven’t we even replaced the first team coach, and the fact that we have no quality Centre Backs at the club becomes irrelevant when the fiscal policy kicks in again, at the merest hint of danger.
We’ll make do with utility players, who’ll stroll in the park with a cigar at the back, in SPL games, but will be cut to ribbons against lesser teams than Ajax, who have been another sleeping Euro giant for decades.
The 90 minutes tonight was a severe culture shock, a glimpse of the gulf between Scottish and Dutch football where even their level of fitness was superior never mind their skill level, tactical and technical ability.
But never mind, Ragers are in the Third division.
Clashcitybhoy on 21 July, 2012 at 22:51 said:
Ajax played it much more like a competitive game, they committed many more fouls, and we’re not pulled up for it.
Enjoyed the half time show on Celtic TV.
The only thing about a lesson is that we learn from it, I think Lenny has shown the capacity to do so, he won’t let us down.
DJBEE
Will do,I enjoy the Mondays a lot more too than when I was young,to be fair though the dance scene at that time was immense,we always used to think they were rival scenes though lol.
I said the other day we would struggle against Helsinki and was accused of overly negative/pessimistic.
I would say I am just being realistic.We have struggled in Europe for the last few years.Not so long ago we could give serious European teams a run for their money (especially at home) Barca,Bayern,Porto,AC,Man Utd, etc
Now we cant even match mediocre teams like Sion,Utrecht etc
Sad but true.
So whats the problem
obvious one is players arent good enough,why ? because we dont have enough money to attract better players (or arent willing to spend enough money)
But teams with smaller budgets than ours can out perform us in Europe
Its very disappointing but its where we are at right now.
I cant see the board spending money on the team right now,they know they can win the SPL with the squad we have (indeed we have too big a squad in SPL terms)
So I wont be surprised if players are sold rather than bought.
I hope I am wrong,I hope we beat Helsinki home and away and go on to qualify for the Champions League proper but I am prepared for the worst.
Praecepta,
Was the Spurs score not 2-2?
Ajax Cape Town 1-1 Man Utd
Wonder how the ManU fans are responding.
praecepta on 21 July, 2012 at 22:43 said:
I know exactly what you mean. They were great days though and I’m so glad that guys like you and I have lived to see what’s happening now!
For the bhoys who go down the “only a friendly” route ,the warning is there.Not a boo bhoy by any means but we will struggle big time to get even into the Europa League IMO.I posted a while ago that Michael Laudrup was available as manager,got a bit of stick but hey that’s what opinions on this blog are for.NL will always be a Celtic Legend for me and majority of the support.I cannot see us making any progress in Europe,which is now the target.Neil got the job for a number of reasons,possibly not footballing reasons.No tin hat on for this,I don’t think I am alone here.
As someone wrote earlier our problem could be keeping the players we have rather than attracting new ones.
itsabouttim on 21 July, 2012 at 22:58 said:
Big time mate,but if we are to start these games with a lone striker,nobody can play that role better than Samaras.
See Aluko is away to Hull,never new the clown was only 23 years of age – he looks about 46.Those African birth certificates i suppose.He could have been a decent signing of us,but it looks like we are not going to sign any new players.
Went out for a few beers after the game tonight, Dutch, Ajax supporting mate watched the game, was as bad as anything have had to endure here
Couldn’t disagree with him on anything he said.
I can’t see what some players bring to the team, if Lenny is learning from defeats like the one the other day, what was Murphy doing on the pitch.
A quality CH will bring a calmness to the team, of that there is no doubt.
Also needed is a midfield playmaker, again to bring calmness to the team, no point imo in getting another striker untill we sort out the defence and get a playmaker in, but what would I know.
BSR
I totally agree,can’t argue,was just looking for a positive and on that bended vibrato,am off to bed.
What is the Stars-I would bet we had 2 or 3 guys on more money on the Ajax players tonight,i think we need a coach not a manager with a big Celtic heart.I truly hope I am wrong and getting pelters on here in the months to come.
16 roads
Do you think Aluka would have paid us to play for us?