If/when minds at Celtic get around to considering a replacement for Alan Thompson it would also be wise to recognise the international nature of the game. Lennon, Mjallby, Parker and Thompson were all football sons of Martin O’Neill, rooted in the domestic tradition of the game (even the Swede).
Football philosophy drifts slowly between national boundaries carried by successful coaches and players. Right now the ambitious teams in the world are trying to ape the Barcelona/Spain model, the success of which is hard to argue with, but whether we look for a Spanish influence or not, we must surely look for a voice to challenge what the current management team regard as orthodoxy, in all aspects of the job.
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Gordon_J – What’s the point of international football when squads are full of players with only a tenuous link to the nation they’re supposed to represent? (thumbsup)
JackGlasgow
6 o’clock on the 6th June gives us 666, so you never know, it might be Armagedon Day.
Otherwise:
– RFFF is supposed to be meeting Mr Green today.
– SFA have AGM with Rankers on the list of topics.
– Several entries in CVA proposal are dated 6thJune but are probably mistakes…
Rene Alex Magritte.
Sonofdan. Of course they struggled away from home with one up front and 5 in midfield
philvisreturns,
In my world the rules would be that you could only represent the country you were born in or where one of your parents were born. But those are not the rules – and other countries use them to their advantage so why shouldn’t Scotland?
DBBIA
Il Trap –
7 Serie A titles
German league title
Portuguese league title
Austrian league title.
European Cup.
European Cup winners Cup
3 UEFA Cups
Intercontinental Cup .
ASonOfDan on 6 June, 2012 at 10:27 said:
I would say just after just after we beat the huns at ibrox to go seven points clear……..then threw it away!
Like you say our strikers couldn’t score and our whole team churned out inept displays and it ultimately cost us the 4IAR that we craved for.
If WGS had stayed for another season he would have been in lynchmob territory.
DonegaulPaul st 09:54:
I loved that Thai Tims video!!!
The best way I can, and do!, stick it to the
Gordon_J – I dunno. Would guess the SFA’s incompetence / habitual torpor is a factor here.
Howevah… if your neighbours decided their kids weren’t good looking or talented enough to appear in the school play, so rope in cousins to take their place, does that mean you should do the same? (thumbsup)
Allgreen
“Being well prepared” has long been a cycling euphemism for engaging in a spot of quiet doping at your pre-tournament training retreat. Quite appropriate given Walter’s post-Kaunas unfunded transfer splurge.
“Ah, monsieur Ullrich, il est bien préparé”.
While we’re waiting for the next revelation,the euros,and the transfer market to get going,check out the goal on this page of a brilliant site.
http://haha.nu/page/4/
DonegaulPaul st 09:54:
I loved that Thai Tims video!!!
The best way I as an individual can, and do!, stick it to the Daily Retard is DON’T BUY IT AND DON’T CLICK ON THEIR LINKS!!!
Yours in Celtic,
TB&F
The differences between Scotland and Ireland at International level have many facets.
Irish player from the Irish league rarely feature in the International side but most of their side were in fact either brought through the ranks at Irish clubs and snapped up by English ones orthey have played at a higher standard (English leagues) for many more years and had to push themselves unlike most of the players in the SPL (there was great debate about levels of fitness among our players and how they need time to adjust to playing in England).
Ireland have over the years had their fair share of guys with tenuous links to Ireland who got a game and helped them qualify for major tournaments (Cascarino being one of the most obvious as he himself has admitted he was no Irishman). The diaspora however has worked well in their favour – McGeady and McCarthy being two good examples.
Scotland have had a few English players with tenuous links to Scotland but the basic problem is few have been very good other than Don Hutchison was.
In terms of personnel Ireland have guys who can score goals – Keane, Doyle, Cox, Long
A midfield who can chip in – McGeady, Duff and a few others with the odd goal
And crucially Ireland have a defense whose players play at a decent level and a good Keeper.
Scotland have: two good keepers, a terrible back 4, a midfield lacking balance but with one player who when fit can and does play at the highest level, no consistent goalscorers and most importantly no star player for people to get behind unlike Ireland who have Robbie Keane. The top scorer for Scotland is Miller with 16 goals in God knows how many internationals – a rubbish record and most of his goals either come against good sides or the dross. He doesn’t do it against the teams of equal ability and when he goes who is left to score the goals? Mackail – Smith? Goddwillie? Ratboy Naismith?
Fletcher won’t get a look in so what is left? SPL strikers? Really?
Ireland also have a manager who knows what he is doing, Scotland have 4-6-0.
The Irish also produce more skillful players than Scotland because of coaching from a young age. Think about it – the average Scottish philosophy on football – big strong physical guys with zero talent on the ball (a philosophy brought about by the likes of Craig Brown and the Cardigan). Every Scottish side in the league has no creativity with the exceptions of Celtic and Dundee United – James Forrest and MacKay Stevens are the exceptions to the drab anti-footballer that populates every Scottish side from its source material (the local populace).
Celtic are ahead of the game here – we are producing talented young players and hopefully Dylan McGeoch becomes the next one from the conveyor belt of skillful players. We have much to thank the Tommy Burns for even now.
IN former years Scotland produced great players and player Ireland could only dream about having in bulk the way Scotland did in the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s. Then Financial dopers R us ruined the game and no marks like Walter Smith and Jim Jeffries brought their “brand” of football to ruin the game in Scotland. Our players were no longer picked up by English sides and we have suffered ever since.
Good luck to Ireland this weekend, they ‘ve earned it and I wish them success and if not a bloody good time. You never know.
SofTunis – lucky we went for the likes of the great C.Levein!
A good manager will make more of limited resources than a poor manager will with rich resources.
philvisreturns,
Not really a parallel is it? If you transfer schools you can join in a new school play. And you could do this several times.
lionroars67 on 6 June, 2012 at 10:28 said:
Going by the wikipaedia squad list, the answer to my own question is a 15 (over half), which to be honest is more than I thought it would be. That 13 all came up through at least school level Irish football, before being picked up by other teams. With the exception of Aiden McGeady and Robbie Keane, they all play in England now.
Interesting.
Snake, very good post. was just about to say that but in not so many words!!
The likes of Given Dunne Keane are all born and bred in Ireland and were all picked up at an early stage and therefore bypassed playing in LOI. Doyle played for Cork for short time.
Sffs
Twotontim
Home performances were ok, lots of home wins, team played well enough.
But away from Home, the tinkering with formation and 4,5,1 led to numerous 1 1 draws and champs league money handed to huns
Dont know why he did it
If he had played same team away as at home, the league would have been secured
DBBIA ——–
Trap’s spell as Manager of Italy is regarded as a disaster.
Gordon_J – Yes, it’s not a perfect analogy, but then we’re not living in a Panglossian utopia.
You get the idea though. Should we outsource the job of representing ourselves just because we’re not amazingly brilliant? (thumbsup)
SydneyTim on 6 June, 2012 at 10:51 said:
It will always go down as one of the most frustrating times for me as a Celtic Supporter, that season where 4IAR was looming, we went seven points clear and then just lost focus, and like you say he tinkered with the formation. Willo Flood will unfortunately always be mentioned in this debacle. Not his fault of course but the signings we didn’t make contributed to us losing the title to the huns and ultimately handing them the lifeline of champions league money.
Thanks for all the comments re 6th June !
Philvis @ 10:42
A noble suggestion, and well made.
But a no less an arbitrary view than application of the existing grandparents rule.
What if the school play thing was a competition against all the other schools in the land in which all schools are permitted to draw their casts from enrolled students and their near relatives?
If rival schools are using the rules to draft in cousins, etc. your own school would be daft not to do the same. You’re not ‘outsourcing’, your merely following the rules, however imperfect they may be in your own eyes.
Do you go for school glory, or the ignominy of finding your school ranked many places behind your nearest rivals and destined to slide further down the scale; all in the name of your school being the last bastion of Corinthian correctness?
FF
lionroars67 on 6 June, 2012 at 10:28 said:
How many players from the Rep of Ireland squad are born in Ireland and brought up through the Irish league? Genuine question by the way, I’m not stirring.
______________________________
Have you by any chance asked the same question about the number of overseas players who represent the English national side in both Rugby & Cricket, without any sort of criticism ?
Genuine question by the way, I’m not stirring.
TwoTunTimfromTeddington
WGS wanted out long before. Losing Tommy Burns had taken the heart out of it for him. He should have walked after 3IAR but I think he felt he owed it to Tommy’s memory to stay on.
Our strike force was abysmal after the New Year.
SofTunis – like Capello’s in charge of England? I expect running a NT involves the use of a different set of skills than running a club side.
I, for one, will not get involved in a WGS debate. Many pro-Strachan campers will pardon no criticism of the man, no matter how slight or mild. Yer a fecking hun, if you breach the code. I received said treatment for saying I didn’t much appreciate the style of play, particularly during the last season. This kind of immature, extreme, reactionary & intolerant attitude towards divergent opinion is very disappointing to see. I expect more tolerant open minded values amongst Tims. The lowest is when they say you are a “Celtic minded” bigot. Meaning of course that you criticise WGS because he wasn’t a Celtic player, a fan ( or as they claim ), a Catholic with Irish ancestry. It really depresses me that fellow Tims stoop this law towards someone who doesn’t agree with their view. I think WGS has become deified amongst certain people. You would think you were dis-ing Padro Pio or Pope John Paul II. He is a football manager who was far from perfect. Who had great successes & also made mistakes- its football, not Science, divergent opinion is inevitable, to be expected- why do some feel the need to litter their posts with vicious maledictions & denunciation?
SFFS and Snake Plissken
Ireland have been producing decent players for many years now. I can still remember watching youth teams giving very good accounts of themselves in major tournaments with the U16s and U18s actually winning the European Championships in 1998 with players who are still playing for the senior side today including John O’Shea, Richard Dunne and Robbie Keane.
Any player who is half decent in the Irish league gets picked up by scouts in England and Scotland so as you say the league isn’t that strong but the players got good experience before making it to bigger things.
Mort
Just a point on WGS and his last season at the club. In my opinion we were an ‘honest mistake’ away from retaining the title (stonewall penalty at Easter Road in the dying minutes of the penultimate game).
At the time we were all frustrated because many of us felt the Huns would have been finished if Celtic had won the league again that season. It seemed like a change missed to bury them.
We will never know for sure. But supposing us winning that title would have led to the Huns going bust at that stage – they would no doubt have been parachuted straight in to the top flight as a newco with only the embarrassment of liquidation hanging permanently over them.
Consider how things have panned out since then with all the scandal proceeding their inevitable oblivion. Life without the Hector, Whyte Knight, the Blue Knight, the Gorilla in the room, Duff & Duffer, the Murray exposure, the duplicate contracts, rangerstaxcase and Calamity McCoist would have been a lot duller
Sometimes these setbacks work out for the best in the long run.
Agree totally twotun
Teddington. I had some Mates who stayed there, we used to walk to Kingston for nights oot
Great memories
Folly Folly – Thank you, and a persuasive counter-argument.
Howevah… while it is in the narrow interests of the school to do whatever it takes to clamber up those greasy league tables, or however they measure success, it’s not necessarily in the interests of the parents if this comes at the expense of opportunities for their (admittedly gawky and sullen) children.
It’s in Craig Levein’s interests to get the best possible players in his squad, even if they’re all from a Peruvian hill tribe who happened to once have stumbled across a crate of Irn Bru that was mysteriously ditched from a passing aeroplane, but is it in Scotland’s interest?
Like the Olympics, international football has come a long way from the sporting ideals of the early 20th century, but does that mean we should look to actively participate in genealogical doping?
It profits a man nothing to give his soul for the World Cup trophy, but for qualification to pot 4 in Euro 2016 followed by a predictable early exit?
I’d rather see a Kenny Miller or a Chris Iwelumo represent Scotland and lose than a team full of foreign mercenaries like Nacho Novo who couldn’t get a look in with their own national sides. (thumbsup)
Lionsroared,
Current squad that plays in EURO12
2 out of 3 keepers born in Ireland
6 out of 7 defenders born in ireland
6 out of 8 midfielders born in ireland
3 out of 5 strikers born in ireland
17 of the squad were born and bred in ireland.
Of the “6 non irish”
Walters has an irish mother
Cox has an irish grand parent
Green and irish grandparent
Aiden has an irish grand parent
StLedger has an irish grandparent
Westwood has an irish grandparent
SFFS
Mort, the Irish team that won that u18 was a great side.
managed by Brian Kerr. Do you know who the first person he said when asked the question “Which one of this team do you think will make it”?
SffS
starryplough
Just sent that to cowan.
Them kids are BRILL!!!!!
I don’t understand the pro/anti Strachan debate.
We should want everyone to succeed at CP no matter what we feel about hem
GS took control at a difficult time and won 3 in a row. He gave us some more great European nights at CP.
The downside for me was that he brought in too many underperformers and the football was at times very poor.
Every manager makes mistakes and at times they will cost games,
Even after leaving the club GS shows that he “got it”. He defended us in the press and returned stupid questions with topspin.
GS will be remembered in history for the titles which other more popular managers couldn’t manage for one reason or another. .
DBBIA ——
Capello’s record with England is way better than Trap’s record with Italy.
Capello’s record with England is better than the record of .-
Steve McLaren
Sven
Venables
Hoddle.
Keegan
Capello’s English is way better than Trap’s Italian !
Mort
Absolutely, it is down to the development they receive and the style in which they are taught to play.
Look at the Welsh players – Bale, Bellamy, Ramsay – skill skill skill.
We are killing talent in Scotland but the talent IS there. It needs nuturing and I for one am glad and proud of the way Chris Mccart and other are developing our kids.
Look at Slovakia.
A country with the same population as Scotland whose major sport is Ice Hockey NOT football. Only 3 of their squad play in Slovakia and none of them come out of the Zilina school (the team who produce the most players for the national team AFTER they leave Zilina and yet a financial toy club like Senica (who coincidentally took over Artmedia Bratislava’s share in the league as they went bust and now no longer exist) get a player or two in when Zilina are frequently champions with Slovan Bratislava. I can tell you that never sits well with Zilina folks and they are right to be annoyed.
Scotland has many lesson to learn but as we have seen they won’t learn them from those who come from the anti-football school associated with the blue half of Glasgow.
jude2005 is Neil Lennon \o/ on 6 June, 2012 at 11:27 said:
Good man…