Barcelona v Celtic, Live updates
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“we created a numerical superiority in the areas of the pitch where we’d planned to”
A. Iniesta 13/09/16
Yip
Ah waant tae see us humping the huns every day of the week but,….in the dressing room, a realistic application of the facts should be applied.
HH
P.S. Gremlins hit the post button too early ;-)
Talking about defence, Is Svietchenko much better than O’Connell?
As for Jozo, that signing looks like a particularly bad one.
Dorus would make a great sweeper – great feet . He’d be a better sweeper than Gordon. Not sure he’s a better goalie ( and I have reservations about Gordon)…
Most of our games we just need a sweeper . In Europe we need a great keeper.
“We created numerical superiority off the pitch thanks to state aid and the long suffering Spanish tax payer.”
Barca bank manager.
CAPTAIN BEEFHEART
______________________
Maybe the defence didny have guid enough defence in front of them ?
Three fouls — we played like tourists.
All we were worried about was what jersey would we get at the end on the game.
Three fouls — how many did Alaves conceed at the weekend.
Wee boys playing a man’s game with the fear.
Young KT — I can forgive.
ML / NB / ES — They need to work out if they are up for this level.
Finally at least the SPL Ludge / Fixtures officer got the result he was looking for.
Starry Plough/Captain Beefheart
Whilst largely agreeing with what you say I would add that in Scotland at least our self-image as underdogs seems somewhat ridiculous- although as I said in an earlier post that we are now so far ahead financially is not an accident, our fault or because we have received, er, unusual financial benefits from councils or the country’s oldest bank
Jim
CAPTAIN BEEFHEART on 14TH SEPTEMBER 2016 10:21 AM
Talking about defence, Is Svietchenko much better than O’Connell?
As for Jozo, that signing looks like a particularly bad one.
Yes, he is much better than O’Connell, who looked like me when he came on.
Jozo’s reputation was enhanced last night.
Captain Beefheart on 14th September 2016 10:21 am
Talking about defence, Is Svietchenko much better than O’Connell?
Much, much better.
TheOriginalSadiesBhoy on 14th September 2016 9:49 am
Spot on; we are punching above our weight in the CL. We need to remember that.
BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS on 14th September 2016 9:54 am
Yes, it’s down to the head to head against Monchengladbach; almost back to the old knock-out format!
James Forrest on 14th September 2016 10:01 am
Had a look at your piece and the comments after it. It never ceases to amaze me how, IMHO, some people just don’t see what happens during a game! We were totally outclassed by a far superior team. No more, no less.
FAC the Act
KTF
I suspect Dorus is their to provide proper GK competition. It’s be interesting to see if CG gets back in and plays at higher level than he’s been showing for the last season.
Think that Craig Gordon boobed wi the 2 goals that we lost away to HBS.
Lose one more and, £30 million oot the windae.
But again,….I think that the defence ie: the back 4 / 3 whatever, need a guid
defensive mf in front of them.
Maybe Brendan is too idealistic to realize that ?
Git the squirrel oot ;-)
We had two great goalies in boruc and Frazer Two goalies who commanded the box. Gordon was ok for a free. But we had ten million pounds to find a replacement. While only half of that should have been used to fund a replacement. Sadly it was used to make up poor planning and scouting by Lawell and park, in that it made up for lost income due to failure of CL
When you’re hammering big Jozo and he wasn’t even playing, it’s time to take a step back.
Let’s give Jozo a chance before we write him off.
Sievechencko is too slow….imho.
thetimreaper on 14th September 2016 10:14 am
You’re right, no point over analysing, but some analysis is needed all the same.
Midfield runners not being picked up is basic stuff.
Being caught out by simple one-twos repeatedly is not good.
Not being alert to possible interceptions and hesitating to go in for 50/50s is infuriating.
We could have kept it a bit more respectable.
I hope and think we will learn from it.
HH
They monstered a low energy back 5.
Work the wing / threat in the middle then overload the inside channel with runners against a static CB — rinse and repeat ad naseum.
Playing a back 5 meant that there was no one either willing or available to match the second run into the inside channel.
Engineering terms — school boy howler of Victorian boiler design proportions.
Want to play a defensive game — add an extra defender.
No analysis required — just make it thicker.
And still the boilers exploded.
Don’t try and work out how they play, where the threat will come from, what form that threat will take — just add an extra stiff at the back and hope for the best.
MF just switches off as with all those defenders on the park surely someone will pick them up ?!?
Let’s not forget that De Vries made some saves last night. Save that perhaps CG wouldn’t have made. So I suspect that the scoreline would have been much the same regardless of the keeper.
Timreaper,
My points about defence were general and not about last night when it is ridiculous to judge too harshly.
Truth be told, we have been due a couple of these hammerings against the super powers. No shame in it.
Said last night – we (the support) need to draw a line under this result. Plenty of tactical analysis for BR and the coaching staff to digest – the trick will be to learn lessons from them and hopefully apply some in the upcoming 5 CL games.
Realistically when the draw was made – our goal (prize) was 3rd place at best. We’ve got a head-to-head to win (at worst on agg.) against BM – depending on Group Results 5-7 points might just be enough to get us that Europa last 32 place.
The CL gulf in class is there – we are an over achieving Pot4 side. Let’s face it – take a look at all the teams in the Group Stages – probably 24-28 would currently be favourites to beat us.
BR faces a major task – see us through this Group as painlessly as possible – learn from it and build towards CLQ next season. Qualify for 2017 with a more competent and streetwise squad – rinse & repeat in 2018.
Meantime – we will just need to enjoy the roller-coaster and the odd buzz nights. I think there will be pain and joy – all part of being a Celtic Supporter! H!H!
SYDNEYTIM SAYS SACK LAWELL NOW on 14TH SEPTEMBER 2016 10:29 AM
_____________________________________________________________________________
It was play time for the PLC-Hierarchy for 4 years wi no huns in the league.
Some folk will say guid stuff about DD cause Brendan was brough in ????
Eh, 30,000 empty seats brought Brendan in…..imho.
Ye never know,….maybe we could squeeze into the Europa League and, Brendan might get us a guid run in it ?
Then, the fear will be….how long will we keep BR for ?
But,…I’d rather have that fear coz, then ye know that Cellic are doing it on the pitch and ‘that’….is what it’s all about….imho.
HH
The problem now that we face is we know that from now on it will not get much better for us barring a good draw from here on in every time we get into this stage.
The CL is not for us in a meaningful way.
We won’t influence it. We won’t compete beyond a last 16 if we get a good draw in the groups. If we get a group with teams from 3 out of the 4 favoured leagues, we’re more or less out before a ball is kicked.
But we make a lot of money by getting there.
That is the rub.
If you want to be in this tournament you are going to have to take results like last night’s from time to time.
It’s not knockout.
It’s no longer about bringing through a good team and building because talent gets snapped up elsewhere by teams like Southampton.
It’s purely down to who has money and who people want to see in the latter stages.
It’s been like that for a very long time.
If you think this is sour grapes from me, it’s not. I said the day we got that draw it would be bad for us and I have been on record saying how much I hate the format of this tournament.
4 teams from certain leagues getting in is killing competition, it’s hurting sides from ”smaller” nations.
Champions of many nations are excluded all together because of qualifying and with the exception of part time teams I cannot see any justification for that.
If all the champions got in directly, got the kind of money from the competition and a significant portion of that money was dispersed into their top leagues or across their leagues on an even basis there would be healthier and stronger competition across the continent. Just my opinion.
Teams from Scotland as well as Holland, Belgium and even Portugal now know full well any talented players developed are sold pronto and teams from bigger leagues snap up youth from the continent from nations like Croatia, Slovakia etc, put them in their reserve teams and they barely see the light of day half the time and then they are loaned elsewhere.
It’s a problem across the continent.
Then we come to seeding.
It sets us and many others up to fail.
Imagine they put all the names in a hat and drew a group of – Barcelona, Bayern, Leicester and Juventus.
Imagine the uproar – we cannot have those teams playing each other at this stage because…….. it’s not competitive.
Seriously I’ve heard people say that to me.
Leicester with no history of playing in Europe get to be a top seed this year. How did that happen when Dortmund as German champs a few years ago were in Pot 4 after their years of absence from the tournament? Leicester would have been one of the lowest ranked teams under normal circumstances but they get more than a little bit of a leg up because of where they play their football.
I understand they changed the rules this season for that to happen but that is my point. These rule changes are still to the detriment of smaller nations. As for ”the champion’s route” – it’s an insult to teams from many nations as far as I am concerned.
The only way to remedy this is as follows:
A free draw.
Home and away
Knockout.
That’s football folks.
They don’t want a first round where Barcelona have to play Bayern Munich. That is why the CL was created.
This is all about the money.
And yet we all want to be a part of it.
I am not sure we can square this particular circle.
Reflecting on us specifically and our performance –
Celtic must prepare now for next season in Europe. I don’t like the CL format but I recognise that people want to be there and the club want to be there from manager to players to boardroom – it’s a fact of life now. If we’re entering the competition, we might as well try and do as well as we can.
Brendan Rodgers’ biggest mistake last night was trying to play Barcelona at football. We were too open, they took full advantage and then some.
Missing the penalty was a major moment. Had we scored who knows how the game would have gone? Minutes later Messi scored and it was game over.
I remain convinced if our keeper had made that foul he’d have seen red but that is just my opinion.
Every team who get a result against Barcelona do it the same way – be physical, close down all space, play on the break or for set pieces and corners and be lucky. Celtic did it, Chelsea did it, I think Milan did it and throw in Athletico Madrid as well. Taking Barcelona on at football is something I think only Real Madrid can do. Arsenal have tried to play Barcelona at football and been trounced as well.
I’m not down because of the defeat but I know we must do better.
The manager needs to have a look at the goalkeeping situation. De Vries has done nothing to inspire anyone with confidence so far. He looks shaky in fact. He needs to find defensive holding midfield players for next season. Right now we have Biton and he isn’t going to be that player. We have talent in the team but not enough for that level yet.
Sign one or two more in January and move a few more out who need to go like Efe Ambrose and probably Boyata.
See if Simunovic is going to be the answer between now and then and if not get another centre half in. Kolo Toure is with us for only one season.
Scott Brown was arguably our best player last night as far as anyone could be accused of having a good game but he cannot go on forever either. We have young exciting players but they need old heads and someone to do the dirty work in midfield as well to allow them to play.
It’s not easy to find these players but they are out there.
I still trust Brendan. I like what he has done so far more or less and I hope we have a successful domestic season, build for next season and put up a better show than last night in our remaining group games.
I don’t expect us to qualify from the group and I think it might be possible to get to the Europa league but that will be a hard slog. Give it our best shot and that is all we can do.
The most important things this season for Celtic are Six in a row, beating domestic opposition and allowing the manager to set up a team that will last us a few seasons and make us as competitive in Europe as it is possible to be given the previously described problems.
As for the CL as a competition – I still cannot stand it. People can fawn over it if they like but I won’t be. I barely watch it anymore if Celtic are not playing.
….phone call….oot.
The inability to follow opposition runners from midfield (or any other part of the field) has been a long standing problem for Celtic. Playets have to be fitter and be prepared to work harder.
67 Heaven
I was never in any doubt that we would get gubbed, was fairly certain that the gap between us and Barca was similar to the gap between us and deidco, doesn’t make the medicine taste any better though, you can see it coming but it tastes just as bad as you thought it would, worse in fact.
i wish we could get as much cash from the europa league as we do for the champions league
from a footballing perspective, i dont think playing in games like last nights does us any good whatsoever, i dont think we gain any positive experience, we could play them every day for the next month and still concede 5 goals a game
i think theres more to be gained(from a footballing perspective again) by playing in the europa league against the standard of teams in there
we would have more of the ball and have an opportunity to progress as a team
but the europa league has no cash, and the home games cant hold a candle to CL nights
hmmmphhhh
Not too bothered. Thought we were lucky to get away with 7. Just shows that the ‘old firm’ isn’t a viable option anymore if we have ambition. Its federalism or death
foghorn leghorn on 14th September 2016 10:42 am
but the europa league has no cash, and the home games cant hold a candle to CL nights
====
Well the money went up a fair bit last year I believe, obviously still nowhere near CL levels.
As for the home games not holiding a candle to CL nights, true but its partly all in the mind. Ajax, Fenerbache, Inter Milan and Atletico Madrid have all been at CP in the Europa League in recent times. Great nights.
Dont think we got close to a sell out for Atletico Madrid in the EL which shows the attitude at the time to the competition.
Maybe a season in the CL, season in the EL would be best for £’s, and coefficient… sadly not a choice we get to make!
Still, we have to remember we are in a tough group even by CL standards.
Lets roar us to a win at home vs Man City and take it from there. They are no Barcelona, although a different proposition from last seasons Man City.
HH
Praecepta
Gladbach are a very strong team with ambition of their own. I said at the draw that this was the “b@stard group”, and nothing since has changed my mind.
Barca and City have designs on winning the tournament, and teams capable of doing so. Gladbach have their eye on second spot in the group. Where that leaves Celtic in the equation of ambitions remains to be seen, but it’s not difficult to work out in draft form.
Bayern 5 Rostov 0
“The game was over the minute they took the lead.After that it was only a question of How many.I cant criticise my players-that would be like criticising myself for not being as fast as Usain Bolt”
Ivan Danilatz.Manager.Rostov FC
VFR800A8 on 14TH SEPTEMBER 2016 10:28 AM
James Forrest on 14th September 2016 10:01 am
Had a look at your piece and the comments after it. It never ceases to amaze me how, IMHO, some people just don’t see what happens during a game! We were totally outclassed by a far superior team. No more, no less.
———————————
Yes – just read the first half-dozen comments after James’ piece, and agree with your point.
Complete lack of perspective re: the level of player & team we were playing against – one of the best collections of individual players schooled in one of the most effective styles of football – ever.
Barca bought a left-sided centre-half in the summer for around 50,000,000 Euro – one player – a left-sided centre-half for goodness sake! Now I know the price of a player doesn’t correlate exactly with his skill level (see the EPL for many examples to the contrary), but it is one small indication of what we are up against.
Snake Plissken (one of my all time movie heroes!) – thanks – you saved me an hour during which I would have said exactly that – totally agree.
It is an unbalanced competition – focused on finance rather than what many people would consider fair, sporting competition.
We know that when we enter, so we have to take the consequences along with the cash.
HH
BGFC
SNAKE PLISSKEN on 14TH SEPTEMBER 2016 10:37 AM
Excellent, excellent post.
Until we sign midfielders capable of doing the basics well we will struggle away from home against so called minnows (Red Imps and Beer Sheva) never mind the elite. Brown was reasonable last night, Bitton isn’t good enough for SPFL let alone Europe (he gets away with it because we are so dominant). Armstrong/McGregor are good SPFL players who look like rabbits in the headlights when they step up to European level (EL as well as CL).
We are participating (not competing) in a group of the highest level with a midfield that were out of their depth in the EL last season. If Molde made us look second rate then what do we really expect when we play the likes of Barca?
BGFC @ 10.53
Who did Barca buy for €50mill?
Think you might be overplaying your hand somewhat.
Interesting how many people are looking for excuses?
I am looking for an improvement.
Interesting that TR did not get game time last night.
Interesting that ES got hooked.
BR got a big job to do over the next two weeks.
Every hand to the pumps for me.
Snake….top post.
We have been rag dolled often by barca yet managed to keep the score down by being well organised and competing. That was the difference last night. Too much ball watching and not enough awareness of the runners or the space. For all Craig Gordon’s faults his one strength is he can be a decent shot stopper and against barca perhaps he should have been the call. However, dust ourselves down, move on. Next!
Not tracking runners/ball watching. It happened from the first goal to the last.
The energy, concentration and awareness were missing.
I’m not saying we could have taken anything from Barca but, as Gordon Strachan said, we need stronger,faster and more savvy defenders.