Celtic v Motherwell, Live updates
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Celtic during The Great WarAngus, Willie – Pic
The events of the First World War which began on July 28th 1914 were the most traumatic years in the history of the British Isles, much more so even than the Second World War despite what Hollywood may try to make out otherwise. This article is too short to cover every aspect, and out of respect will leave various social and political points for other more appropriate forums than this.
Ironically, just prior to the war, Celtic had toured in Germany in the summer of 1914 and played some of the local sides in friendly matches. However on moving onto Hungary, they were gazumped and tricked into a match which could be labelled as an unofficial ‘Battle of Britain’ against English Cup winners Burnley. So Celtic were playing a ‘Battle of Britain’ football match in a country in which soon the UK would be taking up arms against. The final score was 1-1 and Burnley were given the trophy (actually not handed over) on a coin toss. The match was replayed in Sep 1914 with Celtic winning the game at Burnley’s ground.
Just a month later, the assassination of Arch Duke Ferdinand led to events that began the war. Any friendships made in those tours were sadly to be put on hold by the war, a sorry state of affairs.
At the start of the war, bizarre as it may seem now, expectations were that the whole escapade would be a short one and be all over within a year. This delusion led to curious decisions by the authorities, one of which was to allow the bulk of footballers to remain playing with their clubs rather than sign up. The belief was that it helped to keep up morale on the home front. To allow the players to remain though Celtic had to obtain jobs for the players, and they had to combine hard labour in the factories along with their football careers.
Most of the squad was retained, a popular move as Celtic had a successful squad, but many other clubs also retained their players. An exception is Hearts, where (in)famously the bulk of their first team signed up for the war effort, with the hyperbole being that if they’d stayed together they’d have won the league. Admirable and jingoistic as this may sound, it was never repeated. Getting men to sign up en mass like this was a devious way to coerce men to go to war.
Some claim that Celtic should surrender the 1914/15 league title to Hearts on the basis that Celtic pipped Hearts to the title that season and that many of the Hearts first teamers were part of George McCrae’s Battalion (also known as the 16th Battalion, the Royal Scots). However, many of the Hearts players never actually left Edinburgh but were involved in “military training” and available to play on a Saturday – not very different, perhaps, from the lot of the Celtic players employed in “war related” work for twelve hours a day from Monday to Friday.
Many Celtic squad players (past and present) and staff opted for the armed forces, but sadly a number died in their efforts, or returned home with serious injuries. A list of the names related to Celtic is noted above. Some are well known and celebrated, others sadly were to be just another statistic for the warmongers behind their mahogany desks in the war offices. For us, each of those men deserve a pause for reflection on.
Amongst many others, Willie Angus, John McLaughlin, Archie McMillan, Leigh Roose, Donnie McLeod, Robert Craig and Peter Johnstone had all played on the field of Celtic Park and then fought in the Great War for their lives in the fields of France and Belgium.
The advent of the war in 1914 made a considerable difference to the life of a professional footballer. As well as the scrapping of the Scottish Cup, international matches were also stopped. Players’ wages were reduced by 25% and later fixed at £1 per week. No wages were paid during the close season and footballers were expected to take their place alongside the other workers in the munitions factories and shipyards. League matches were confined to Saturdays and holidays only; and players could only take part if they had worked the rest of the week. The conditions were strict.
As the war progressed the implications for the game were increasingly significant. Player salaries were reduced, employment in munitions factories on Saturdays resulted in a sharp fall in attendance, both by spectators and players and the pressure to complete the fixture card was significant. Celtic was forced to play two matches, against Raith Rovers and Motherwell, on the same day in 1916 in order to comply.
However, this didn’t stop the authorities unashamedly using football as a tool to enlist soldiers. Match days were commonly used as an ideal tool for recruitment drives for the war effort, and during one such event Celtic manager Willie Maley endorsed a mock trench warfare at Celtic Park designed to lure players and spectators alike to the Front. At half-time in some matches throughout Scotland, the slogan ‘Kitchener wants you’ was carried round on placards with rousing appeals to fans to join in with the ‘fun’ on the front. Football was simply used as a tool for enlistment and propaganda.
Once a game had finished, Willie Maley made sure the results were telegraphed to the war office, who then sent it onto the trenches so the soldiers knew the score about half an hour after the full-time whistle. It was said that Patsy Gallacher was the most talked about man in the trenches among Scottish soldiers – more so than King George or the Kaiser.
During the Great War, 557,000 Scottish men joined up to fight and just over a quarter did not return home.
On the field, the league continued but the Scottish Cup & Scotland international matches were halted for the duration of the war, although charity matches and local cup tournaments remained.
For Celtic on a footballing front, it was a successful period albeit understandably overshadowed by more important happenings. The club were league champions going into the war, and having retained a number of Celtic’s best players, the good run continued. However, there was no policy of “safe jobs” found for players to avoid them having to sign up for the war effort. The club won the league title each year for the duration of the war, until the last in 1917-18 (where Celtic finished second).
Additionally, the club played a number of charity matches and allowed players released by the forces to play in invitation matches which helped raise funds for those in need. A notable set of charity matches, was in 1918 when Celtic won the ‘Navy and Army War Fund Shield’, a friendly tournament that Celtic and a few other teams agreed to take part as a fundraising event to give money to footballers and their families who fought in the war.
The club also sent items like footballs to help bolster morale on the front. Would be interesting to know if any of these footballs where ever the ones used in the celebrated kick-abouts at Xmas between the warring sides.
The Celtic side was also said to have played some great football during these. With the quality at hand in the side, then that is not surprising. Great talent like Shaw, McNair, McLean, McMenemy and Gallacher is a treasure trove of players that any side in any era would crave for, let alone during wartime.
It should be noted that for many of the Celtic players, times were additionally hard at home. In August 1915, Alec McNair’s wife died and he had to bring up five children by himself while carrying out wartime work on a 12 hour shift, and still play for Celtic. We can only imagine the hardship this brought in those difficult years.
Andy McAtee was a miner. Patsy Gallacher worked in the shipyards. He was actually fined for bad time-keeping by the shipyards and because of that he wasn’t allowed to play for Celtic on a Saturday afternoon for eight matches.
As the war prolonged, it was to have a major financial and logistical impact on the clubs. Employment in munitions factories on Saturdays resulted in a sharp fall in attendance, both by spectators and players and the pressure to complete the fixture card was significant. However, clubs persevered. If anything, aiming to try to keep life as ‘normal’ as possible can be important in times of trauma, especially for those on the front who wish to hear about good reports from home.
The major issue of Ireland arose during the war, the repercussions of which were to affect all at Celtic both on the field and off (and still do). The fight for independence had stepped up and so did the violence. Details are left for somewhere more appropriate, but their battle for independence had a huge impact on the north and exacerbated the political environment for the Irish in Scotland. It was no easy place to be Irish & Catholic. Many at Celtic were intrinsically tied up in the whole matter.
The war ended in 1918, but changes in society meant that Scotland in the post-war period remained a perilous place. It allowed Rangers to enforce their bigoted signing policies acting on the heightened tension in society, and fermenting the fears in communities.
Incredibly, according to one statistic Celtic had 53 players past-and-present to have fought in this war. Arsenal & Manchester Utd had 22 and 14 players respectively. That’s quite a number at Celtic compared to those sides, and possibly this is little matched elsewhere. It doesn’t make Celtic any greater or lesser than others, nor should it be taken as such, but a surprising fact.
Celtic had come out of the war in as fair a shape as the club could have, but society was to radically change and nothing was to ever be the same
Willie Angus
An old friend, even older than myself, knew Willie Angus from Carluke.
Willie was born in 1888.
Isn’t it great that we have a Celtic connection over 3 different centuries?
Heart warming to see the contributions made on CQN , honouring the memory of the many members of the Celtic family, which include my family members , who played their part in both World wars.
Never should the part they played , or the individuals themselves , be associated with the shameful activities of some members of the British armed forces in other theatres of war , Ireland being of particular interest to many of us here.
That they wore the same uniform should never mean that they share the guilt of those who shamed that uniform .
Lest we forget.
About to hit my kip unlike Friday & Saturday I have work tomorrow … I know a few people mump & moan about P67 … but what a site he has made … I have interacted with Hunderbirds, Philbhoy, David17 today .. 3 people I would never have “spoke” to about Celtic ,.. in fact I have even met Hunderbirds & Philbhoy in real life.. Hunderbirds is brand new but that Philbhoy character is a bam.. in fact a kid on Bo’ness Bam :-)
Fellow Celts … good night n god bless we reside on beautiful Celtic times
Sydney Tim … hope all is good mate not saw you posting for a while sincerely hope it’s because wee Jamesy has been magic and nothing bad on you mate …. Hail Hail 🍀
Macjay 12.13am
Thank you … it wasn’t the same uniform my dad wore
“That they wore the same uniform should never mean that they share the guilt of those who shamed that uniform”
‘GG on 11TH NOVEMBER 2019 12:12 AM
Willie Angus
An old friend, even older than myself, knew Willie Angus from Carluke.
Willie was born in 1888.
Isn’t it great that we have a Celtic connection over 3 different centuries?
——————-
aye,
War Years – Spare a thought for the bhoys of WW1This is a featured page
World War One | The War Years | Celtic Games | Tournaments
Spare a thought for the BhoysJohnstone, Peter – Pic
source: http://www.hellfirecorner.co.uk/celtic.htm
Spare a thought for the following ex Celtic players:
Patrick Slavin,
Leigh Richmond Roose,
Donnie McLeod,
Archie McMillan,
Robert Craig,
John McLaughlin
Peter Johnstone
They gave their lives in the bloodiest war of them all – this article is dedicated to their memory.
One of those players was the enigmatic Welsh International goalkeeper Leigh Roose who also held a Doctorate in Bacteriology, who played on loan to Celtic once in March 1910. Leigh joined the 9th Royal Fusiliers in 1914 and rose to the rank of Lance Corporal and won the Military Medal. Leigh died on 7th of October 1916, his Battalion was caught up in fierce fighting in the Battle for Montauban. At 1:45pm Leigh’s regiment led the attack on enemy lines, encountering heavy machine gun fire on the way. On reaching the top of the nearby ridge, the attacking battalions were practically decimated by heavy shelling and machine gun fire. Like many attacking manoeuvres throughout the 1st World War, the objectives of this attack were never reached. That one day’s attack highlighted the human tragedy that was the First World War, costing the lives of 25 men with an additional 165 missing presumed dead and 132 wounded for no material gain. As one of those 165 who is still ‘missing’ Leigh’s name is inscribed on the massive Thiepval Memorial to his 72,000 other comrades who died in the Battle who also have no known grave.
The second Celtic player who lost his life on the Somme was Sergeant Patrick Slavin whose playing career included spells at Fauldhouse Hibs, Heatherbell, Celtic, Broxburn and West Calder Swifts. Seargent Slavin was with the 2nd Bn Royal Scots and died on Monday 13th November 1916. Patrick lies buried in Serre Rd No 2 Cemetery in the same cemetery as my Great Great Uncle Harold Bates, which is the largest cemetery on the Somme, containing 7,126 graves. Patrick’s Regiment was involved in one of the most significant Battles of the Somme campaign – the 2nd Battle for the village of Serre. On the fateful day of Patrick’s death, fog was thick as zero hour approached at 5am which signified the start of the 2nd ill-fated attack on Serre. The Regimental diary states that they were not as prepared as they might have been for the unexpected weather conditions, suggesting that tapes should have been laid in advance to guide Patrick’s comrades to where the gaps were in the German barbed wire. One cannot begin to imagine what it must have been like for Patrick and his comrades waiting to go over the top at 5am into ‘insufficient light’ plus thick fog with no tapes to guide them to where the enemy was. If that was not bad enough the diary also informs us that not only had the German wire not been properly cut to the extent reported, but also the enemy lay in wait in ‘greater numbers than expected’. One suspects that even if Black Adder’s batman Baldrick had been in charge that day, his cunning plan would not have involved this suicide mission which resulted in 23 soldiers including Patrick being killed, 84 missing presumed dead and 177 wounded.
The following year of 1917 saw a further 4 Celtic players killed in action. Two players died within 6 days of each other and were both involved in the Battle of Arras, which claimed 139,867 British casualties.
Details of John McLaughlin’s Celtic career are scant which suggests that he was probably on the books but never made a 1st team appearance. John was not only played with Celtic but also Mossend Hibs and Renton. John held the rank of Private in the 11th Battalion of the Highland Light Infantry (HLI) – and died of his wounds on Thursday 10th May 1917 and is buried in Etaples Military Cemetery. John was almost certainly a patient in one of the 15 military hospitals located in Etaples. John was probably injured on 23.4.17 which was the date of the last recorded heavy casualty list incurred by the 10/11th HLI at the Battle for Cavelry Farm at Monchy Le Preux just North of Arras.
Eleven days later the pre-war Celtic legend Peter Johnstone who played 223 times for the club and featured prominently in the 6 league titles in a row side also died in the Battle of Arras on Wednesday 16th May. Peter joined the 6th Battalion of the Seaforth Highlanders as a Private to get quicker into the action. Peter was involved in very heavy fighting to capture a nearby chemical works between May 15th-16th. The Regimental casualty list over the 2 day Battle, reads 43 killed, 26 missing presumed dead and 51 wounded. Sadly Peter’s body was never recovered and his name is inscribed on the Arras Memorial to the Missing. Rumour of Peter’s death swept throughout Glasgow and was sadly confirmed on June 6th.
The grim harvest that was 1917 also claimed Archie McMillan who made his first team debut as an outside left against Rangers in 1913. Between the 21st and 23rd of November, Private Archie McMillan and the rest of the 1st/7th Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders were involved in heavy fighting in the Battle of Cambrai, North of Arras. The Argyll’s orders were to capture the village of Fontaine Notre-Dame which is located 2-3 miles outside Cambrai in Northern France. Archie’s battalion was successful in capturing the village on the 23rd November 1917. Unfortunately Archie along with 8 of his other comrades died, a further 22 were missing presumed dead and 126 were wounded during the three-day battle. Archie is buried in Rocquigny-Equancort Rd British Cemetery, Manancourt.
The final casualty of 1917 was Donald McLeod who made 155 appearances as a full back for Celtic between 1902-08. Gunner McLeod was in the 466th Battery of the 65th Royal Field Artillery (RFA) and died from his wounds on Saturday 6.10.17. Donnie is buried in Dozinghem Military Cemetery in Poperinge, Belgium which was used as a Casualty Clearing Station until 1918 which suggests that Donnie was not killed in Battle but injured. Unfortunately due to scant regimental diary information, all we know of the whereabouts of Donnie was that he was in Belgium when he picked up his injury. Donnie most certainly would have been involved in the latter stages of the Battle of Passchendaele. Passchendaele was hell on earth – a mudbath where the Battlefield had been turned into a swamp by continuous rain and shelling.
GFTB on 11TH NOVEMBER 2019 12:18 AM
Sorry if the comment was clumsy.
Macjay 12.20am
I thought your comment was spot on
Nail on head :-)
We should appreciate what we have and on a personal point my dad was the polar opposite from a British soldier (in my eyes) …
GFTB on 11TH NOVEMBER 2019 12:29 AM
As you say , appreciate what we have .
And what was handed down to us .
Including , in my case , a love of Celtic .
:-)
For any poster who hasn’t had the pleasure to meet Macjay he is as daft about Celtic as any of us .. his son ditched him and went to the dancing appeared in Mchuils a bit rough, Macjays daughter rarely left her Dads side … I dint care about his politics but I can assure you he is Celtic through and through and in that couple of hours in my opinion his kids worship the ground he walks on
Macjay … hope you don’t mind me posting that 🍀
Arch Duke Ferdinand was murdered…who gave a fuk…no-one, except the Imperialist Royal families of europe, and the parliaments they controlled…a War to End All Wars…no…but a war to end naked imperialist ambition
Am sure we can remember and honour all the fallen without turning it into a demeaning poppy debate
H.H.
Still smiling over Lazio result and implications
TLT 1.06am
Arch Duke Ferdinand
Was that not the black hand gang
GFTB…thought it was a band lol
Soz…black hand gand was 🤣
*gang
TLT 1.15am
I get a lot of things wrong about Celtic but if I got that wrong “Big Shuggy” would be on here as it was him that taught me all that history stuff :-)
Deelighted we got the Win Yesterday.
I thought it was an excellent performance given the emotional high of Thursday.
War is just so sad. It does noone any good.
RIP all who have went to pointless wars and their life ended.
Superb seeing big Kris looking majestic in his job defending the Celtic goal again – a wee wibbly wobbly Time is allowed – especially when playing on the wrong side foot wise. He isnae in ma top 3 though. Just missed out.
GFTB on 11TH NOVEMBER 2019 12:53 AM
Kind words.
Speechless for once .
:-)
A great run of results on the back of that livi defeat has us in good shape on all fronts. When we return from the international break , it will be to a very important period of the season. To date, us and Sevco have played 12 games, 6 away and 6 at home each. Neck and neck.
From here until the winter shut down we play 8 games, 5 at home and 3 away. They play 7 games, 5 away and 2 at home. We could do with them dropping points during this spell. If they maintain their pace and go into the shutdown breathing down our necks then there’s no doubt, we’re in a title race.
After the shutdown, up until the split, we play 13 games, 8 away and 5 at home. They play 14, 9 at home and 5 away. We could do with a nice cushion heading into the second half of the season.
Not withstanding the cup final, December is a crucial month in how the season will work out.
Callum rallying the troops efter the ball hitting the Celtic Net in Rome.
The Monumental baton Pass.
DeeeeeeeLighted Callum is here, where he Wants to be.
C A P I T A N O.
Callllllum is the Main Man @ Glasgow Celtic, even better than Odsonne and the still to be refined about litlle aspects, Ryantula Christie is Learning Every Day.
WoW.
Magical GLasgow Celtic.
Callum.
AN DUN on 11TH NOVEMBER 2019 1:58 AM
Interesting stats. Agree with your conclusion.
The performance of the ” also rans ” doesn`t fill me with the hope that they can do us a favour , although there are signs of improvement .
The elephant in the Ibrox Board room .
Their finances . Not , however , something we should rely on .
Celtic is Fundamentally Good.
Strong Foundations.
Great the Applause for the Kano Foundation.
The bravest souls of the First World War were abhorred by the vast majority of elite and cannon fodder alike conscientious objectors.
Mr C can you Forgive?
I know you can, so many snobs can’t.
This is a Wonderful World.
Keep on, keeping Olivier Ntcham.
Celtic.
Mein Gott…you made MacJay speachless…small mercies lol
https://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/18026005.sir-rod-stewart-criticises-celtic-fans-lit-flares-inside-stadium-rome-lazio-win/
TLT
It was a figure of speech.
Hyperbole.
:-)
Seriously who gives a monkeys about the opinion of an old slapper
Good morning CQN from a happy, cold and dark Garngad
Well we could have hit 5 or 6 yesterday, but 2-0 will do.
I thought young Frimpong had another good game.
I also wonder how much ground Elyounoussi covers, he never stops running.
A 2 week break from club football then we enter another busy period. I hope some of our bhoys get a rest.
HH
D. :)
PHILBHOY on 10TH NOVEMBER 2019 5:40 PM
………………….
Well said PHILBOY.
Many moons ago I called out that BP Chump as an “Attention Seeking Chump”….some on here berated me for it ?????
I saw right thru his boring, moronic Posts straight away…just a pity some others didnt.
He describes “Jimthetim” as a “Member of HIS Gang”….enough said !
A couple of months ago, that Chump “Jimthe tim” FALSELY/ LIED/ Claimed and Posted to BP on SC …” Dont worry BP, Ive just sorted out that idiot on CQN”, after I had called out that Moron BP again on here.
That so called “idiot” was ME .
Ive got more brains in my Tip than those two could ever dream of.
I asked that Moron/Chump “Jimthe chump” to explain “How EXACTLY did he sort ME out” ?
Two months or more further on…….I’m STILL Waiting ?
As for those Two Chumps being “Gang members/Pals etc”…I dont recall “Jimthe Chump” offering any help to his Pal when, BP Came on here one night screaming that his wife was Missing ?
The poor wummin was probably desperate to get away from him for a few hours ?
That Chump BP, SOMEHOW thought that Folk on here ( Who he had NEVER Met etc).could help find his missing wife ????
I also recall BP posting on here that he was out with a Dug, and was wearing some Celtic Top….when a passing Hun Lorry driver shouted at him.
He came on here in a state of “Distress etc”, and could NOT wait to share this horrific experience with us all on here….so much for being a “GANG Leader” ????
HaHa.
Since those Two Chumps obviously “Luv each other to Bits etc”….they really should “get a Room together somewhere”…If they havent did so already ?
HH
Good morning, friends from a wet and blustery East KIlbride with weheelie bins strewn across this dead end street.. The votes keep on rolling in so if you fancy joinging in, even if you’ve not done so in precious games, then all it takes is an email with your 3 players names to cqnpoty@gmail.com before 10pm tonight.
Great stuff from Celtic yesterday. Players and management are doing us proud.
On the walk home from mass in the morning, a crowd was gathering round the cenotaph in OK. I stopped to join the ceremony which was a short solemn commemoration, no walking poppies, just a few uniformed scouts and cadets, mysterious black suited types and old guys wearing medals. I didn’t feel excluded.
A bugle blew Last Post/Taps, flute and drums played Abide with Me and a lone piper sounded something I didn’t recognise. I’m sure similar took place everywhere.
The 50,000 at Celtic Park in the afternoon were no less respectful of the occasion than the 100 there in the morning.
From behind the goal at the opposite end of the ground, my impression of the Green Brigade rudeness was as a reaction to a Motherwell player approaching to take a corner. A bull and red rag type thing. No biggie at all.
It annoys them so much when we don’t interrupt a minutes silence.
They then go looking for another stick…that’s is the way it works in Scotland.
Hail Hail.
We have a CH that will go to war for the team.Fantastic passes,great tackles,and prepared to hoof it when he sniffs danger.Terrific in the air.A fantastic signing for us.
Thoughts on recalling Jack Aitchinson to provide cover for up front? 4 goals in 4 games.
Can we recall him at any time or only during a transfer window? It would be good to have a match-fit striker on the bench for December and sadly we have no real idea if LG can be that player.
TB 11.07am
In this day and age I wanted big Jules subbed against Hibs when I saw the bump oh his head… delighted the big man just got on with it… thought he was outstanding in both Lazio games, but Thursday night was (in my opinion) his best game for us …
Delighted for people who scoured they big man:-)
scoured ? scouted (if that is even a word)