Following yesterday’s article on the cosy relationship between the police and Scottish Government, who are alarming a remarkably wide range of society, a flurry of information has been passed back to me, including the following notes on the Integration of Scottish Criminal Justice Information Systems (ISCJIS) database. The First Minister has stonewalled requests to breakdown religiously aggravated crime, claiming the Crown Office have destroyed their records, but my source suggests the information is available for analysis in the ISCJIS database. I’m told:
“The material stored (in the ISCJIS database) ranges from simple conviction records, to DNA, and social status. The data is used primarily for presenting Criminal History in court cases, and in identifying suspects in criminal investigations. It is also used of course to measure the social impact of changes in Legislation and Enforcement Policy, as evidenced by the current furore. It will also be used to predict the impact of such changes, particularly as regards Equality and Diversity impacts, which is a statutory requirement of any proposed Legislation. You see, the ‘missing’ data is actually necessary in predicting the impact on Equality of the Offensive Behaviour Bill.”
“Essentially, if you want to know how many Section 74 Breach of the Peace convictions (Aggravation for Religious Prejudice) or even charges, there were at a given point in time in a given court, you simply search on the Breach of the Peace Conviction Code and add the modifier code ‘P’ indicating Religious Aggravation. All such offences are then returned, with full access (rights permitted) to the Reports and Case Notes.”
To assist the First Minister, below is information on what the enquiry form he has to complete looks like. This is a link to the operation manual and if he’s really stuck he can call the helpdesk on 0141-585 – 8333.
We can only speculate why the authorities are so reluctant to disclose information on, on a subject so close to their hearts.
Quick shout for the John Thomson Memorial Fund, which is benefiting from the sale of 60″ posters for the recent stage play, check them out on ebay.
OFFENCE AGGRAVATION
DEFINITION: The code for a crime or offence that adds to the Offence Code by highlighting particular circumstances relating to the specific incident as opposed to the actual charge.
DATA ITEMS: Crime/Offence Aggravator.
PERMISSIBLE CHARACTER SET: Code field – Alpha or Zero.
RANGES/VALUES: The code field is 1 character long and consists of an alpha code, which identifies the Aggravation to the offence committed. It is possible that a charge can have a combination of up to 6 aggravations. An aggravation description may be held in a text field within individual systems and will be an automatic expansion of the Offence Aggravation code into text to specify the nature of the Aggravation.
PRIMARY OWNERSHIP: ISCJIS – maintained by Crown Office.
CODES: Over page:-
CODE Aggravation Inactive indicator
Anticipated activation date
0 No Aggravation
A Anti Social Behaviour
B Offending whilst on Bail
C Cancelled
D Domestic Abuse
E Disability
F Football
G Football Banning Order
H Harassment
I Harassment Order
J Connected to Serious Crime Y October 2010
K Offence against a child
OFFENCE MODIFIER DEFINITION: The code for a crime or offence which provides additional information for the specific incident as opposed to the actual charge.
PERMISSIBLE CHARACTER SET: Code field. Alpha, numeric.
RANGES/VALUES: The code field is 4 characters long and consists of an alphanumeric code, which identifies additional elements of the charge. The code will consist of an alphabetic character followed by 3 numeric characters. If no modifier exists, 4 0’s (zeroes) characters will be transferred. An Offence Modifier description may be held in a text field within individual systems and will be an automatic expansion of the Offence Modifier code into text to specify the nature of the Offence Modifier.
PRIMARY OWNERSHIP: ISCJIS maintained by Crown Office
CODES:- See offence modifier codes. The current
definitions are:-
A For Class A Drugs
B For Class B Drugs
C For Class C Drugs
W For Weapons
L Breach of undertaking
Y October 2010
N Sexual Orientation
O Sex Offenders Order
P Religious
R Racial
S Sexual
Q Transgender
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‘The most coveted prize in particle physics – the Higgs boson – may have been glimpsed, say researchers reporting at the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) in Geneva.
The particle is purported to be the means by which everything in the Universe obtains its mass.
Scientists say that two experiments at the LHC see hints of the Higgs at the same mass, fuelling huge excitement.
But the LHC does not yet have enough data to claim a discovery.’
Ooh Aah! Up the Ha! Dron Collider
Free Nelson Mandela now if that was sung by the Parkhead faithul what would be the consequences?. Nada, nil, zilch, even though the man was a convicted of terrorist acts by the South African govt of the time . The song is therefore political and to some people of a certain persuasion offensive. Would like to see Uefa pick on that one.
Silver City Neil Lennon says:
13 December, 2011 at 17:09
. Don’t sing about the IRA. We’ll win the League more often.
Wow that us some leap of logic.
I seem to remember 9 in a row and IRA songs hand in hand.
Silver City Neil Lennon says:
13 December, 2011 at 17:09
“Don’t sing about the IRA. We’ll win the League more often.”
My God, the Vanguard Bears, follow Follow etc have been agitating on our behalf for years …. do you think Dingwall and company will have rethink?
Dontbrattbakkinanger says:
13 December, 2011 at 17:21
Alex, Salmond says the data has been destroyed.
SilverCity
Rubbish.
People seem to be getting in a bit of a guddle about what is and what is not allowed.
As I see it we have
1. what Scottish criminal law, as it currently stands, forbids. I don’t think any of the songbook falls within this category.
2. what the proposed new legislation will forbid. That will be anything a reasonable person finds offensive, so God knows what that includes.
3. what UEFA’s regulations forbid. The relevant regulation is Article 11 of the UEFA Disciplinary Regulations. It forbids, amongst other things, anything which is of a political nature.
http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Tech/uefaorg/General/01/64/85/47/1648547_DOWNLOAD.pdf
4. what the SPL/SFA will allow. No idea on this one.
5. what the Board are prepared to allow. That seems to be whatever will give them an easy life.
Reference to IRA is not welcome to any football ground – Celtic are right to deman this from our multi cultured fan base. it doesnt matter if these songs are regarded by some as non offensive, non sectarian or even non-illicit – the fact of the matter is that the rest of the world has been convinced otherwise, thanks to lack of education and of course a scottish media campaign to damage Celtics reputation.
We need to rise above this – take the moral high ground. Imagine these songs being sung in the EPL , if Celtic were playing there – the entire country (world) would hate Celtic and label us pro terrorists and pro catholic.
Our brand is “open to all” therefore we should be seen as such.
We have an amazing array of football songs which distinguishes us – unfortunately the “other” songs or add ons completely diminish this.
this is not a debate about what a song is or isnt – its about how its percieved!
What purpose would appealing the EUFA ruling have had?
Genuinely interested.
Silver City Neil Lennon says:
13 December, 2011 at 17:09
You are the ghost of Harry Swann and I claim my five pounds.
Dontbrattbakkinanger says:
13 December, 2011 at 17:21
‘The most coveted prize in particle physics – the Higgs boson – may have been glimpsed, say researchers reporting at the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) in Geneva.
………………………………
Reports that the God Particle has been found are meeja exaggeration.
It is true that they may have discovered a Fourth Chuckle Brother.
Vmhan, Kano 1000 – Supporting Lenny & the Green Brigada! says:
13 December, 2011 at 13:18
I think you are being a bit disingenuous. We all know the illicit songs. Any that construe support for the IRA and possibly any that include references to Fenian(s) or ‘Orange/men/lodge/order/b******s’
It is the end of the road for such songs at Celtic Park or amongst the Celtic support at football matches. We don’t need them at games to motivate the team. We have a huge hymnal of inoffensive songs. No one is going to write up a list for us of what is offensive or inoffensive. If you are in doubt about a song …….. then don’t sing it. Simples.
It was hugely embarrasing watching Breakfast TV on the BBC this morning to see Chris Hollins report to the whole nation about Celtic being fined by EUFA for singing illicit songs in support of the IRA.
Will this endear us to anyone down in England or will their impression of us be that we are every bit as bad as the Neanderthal elements of the Rangers support who ransacked Manchester and as a mob attacked a single policeman while he was lying helpless on the ground?
Does anyone think that singing songs which refer to the IRA is going to enhance our chances of joining the EPL or any league at all outside this one, which so many on here rubbish?
I’m not an apologist for Peter Lawwell or the board but , like it or not , they are who represent us officially and they are NEVER going to be seen , publicly , to do anything than other than criticise those who sing add -ons.
We have plenty of Celtic songs to sing. Give them nothing to pin around our necks.
Maybe all that yesterday will have done is create a precedent to be used against those who deserve it far more than we do.
Throwing huge boulders around when you live in a glass house can backfire.
I would like to apologise to all the Bhoys who continually
posted negative comments about our board. I was wrong
you were right, it is indeed a sad day to be a Celtic
supporter.
Would the last person to leave Celtic park turn the lights
off please.
monteblanco says:
13 December, 2011 at 17:17
As a football supporter, you wouldn’t be doing it right if you were never ever offensive at any point
with respect , really – even if youre over 12?
Celtic was formed to help the poor and needy – Celtic was not formed to free a nation. There are political parties fighting that battle and they do not have HQ at Celtic park!
Sadie’sbhoy
After recent events I am genuinely in doubt about any song which has a reference to Ireland.
Does that mean I shouldn’t sing them?
F**k the SNP
F**k the SNP
F**k the SNP
F**k the SNP
F**k the SNP
It’s finding the fifth Chuckle brother that is the Holy Grail of the Scientific Slapstick community.
And even if he is found it’s not clear which of the four, or indeed five, Chuckle Brothers are illicit in the terms of the Good Friday agreement, which had promised UEFA to decommission the CBs and ‘put them out of use’.
Of course it’s well known that the Continuity Chuckle Brothers saw the terms of the GFA as a ‘sellout’.
And they’ll get what they want – what they’ve always wanted…
… the fans in a civil war
and to think this really kicked off after we gave Rangers a doing and their players behaved like thugs. And their manager went all mouthy hardman at Neil. And that after their fans had attended Hampden and went to town and back and then back into town again with every vile song they could muster.
I genuinely don’t have an answer for us on this one – it’s heart versus head for some fans, heart only for others, head for others again.
There’s either a mess or a new Celtic to support in our future I’m not which one waits and i’m not sure which one I want.
And there’s the elephant in the room in the form of the board not letting the support know the catalyst to the crime – why ever would they do that…?
U
Mightywhite
Ludicrous post on a Celtic website.
Hamiltontim
No point whatsoever in an appeal.
There is no Old Firm
They’ll be desperate to get St Johnstone’s game on tonight….need to turn the pitch into a quagmire…..with Celtic playing there Sunday……no TV and Euan Morris as ref…..
Hope for the best for Thursday against Udinese
Hail Hail
ulysses mcghee says:
13 December, 2011 at 17:51
“I genuinely don’t have an answer for us on this one – it’s heart versus head for some fans, heart only for others, head for others again.”
Theres a really easy answer and that’s for us – all of us to smarten up.
We know there are so many out there who want to “even” things up.
Its SO easy for us not to feed that hunger. Just dont sing songs referring to the IRA.
Ive never understood , and certainly cant now given the changes in Ireland and elsewhere , how any of that enhances our Club.
The world has changed and the fans , even the young ‘uns , have got to realise that.
News spreads instantly – there were 51 different Celtic Newsnow leads today and yesterday containing the word “fine”.
Our reputation is taking a battering.
Sure there are plenty out there just waiting for us to trip up but why make it easy for them when making it hard for them is so easy?
We dont have to do anything. We just have to stop doing one thing – ie singing the stuff I don’t believe we shouldnt be singing anyway.
Give them nothing.
Eurochamps67
Thank you. It would appear that some are jumping on the board’s lack of action as yet another opportunity to batter PL et al.
I’m not a great lover of the PLC but I do believe that they should at least have the chance to address the issue before they’re run out of town. Just maybe they don’t actually know what the specifics of the charge were. I don’t know mate but I despair of the whole sorry mess. Once again as a support we are divided when the team need us most.
Superb arguments.
‘All inclusive’ and ‘Open to all’ therefore those who wish to sing songs of rebellion are not welcome.
I suppose the people who put forward these, errmm, well considered, assertions have failed to see,
the hypocrisy and irony in the view point they choose to express !
Yeah, let ourselves be reduced to soulless and totally meaningless, inane, do do do ex pop ditties,
devoid of any heritage and culture.
Celtic park, here come the days of prawn sandwich munching
and the crackling of sweetie papers.
The lyrics below, relevant or empty gesture?
♫ For those who are in love
There’s a song that’s warm and tender.
For those who are oppressed
In song you can protest.
So liberate your minds
And give your soul expression.
Open up your hearts,
I’ll sing for you this song. ♫
TheOriginalSadiesBhoy says:
13 December, 2011 at 17:42
Vmhan, Kano 1000 – Supporting Lenny & the Green Brigada! says:
You are of course correct. It should be remembered that whatever we sing we would be despised in the EPL.
We are Scottish.
We are Irish.
We are Catholic.
We are a big team with a big support.
We are seen as the other side of the coin.
The EPL would be no easy panacea.
I have sung IRA songs and chants in my youthful days in the Jungle. I feel these were justified in the 70s.
J believe these songs have had their day in football stadium. The fans have and will monitor this. We have self policed ourselves successfully for years.
The Board continually say they are “supporters”. They have proven today they are not. They have stood by and allowed our supporters to be tainted. They are running a business.
They are not supporters. They will pass on but there will still be a Celtic and a Celtic supporter in every corner of the earth.
Hail Hail.
Luxcelt @ 13.18
Like your description of Man. Utd. as a glorified tourist attraction.
The club does have support on the island of Ireland which includes a considerable lot of youngsters and many Scottish fans as well it has to be said. However there are many who have an intense dislike for them like yours truly and were delighted to see them jettisoned from the Champions Lge last week.
Regarding your view that there is no football in Ireland, on the contrary we have quite a lot to chose from and constantly punch above our weight having just qualified for the finals of the European soccer championships next summer and boast the current Magners Lge and European Heineken Cup Champions, not forgetting Shamrock Rovers who are in the group stages of the Europa. Must also mention our great Gaelic games in summertime. So as you see EPL is well down the list here.
My allegiance has been to Celtic like many of my friends here but we can also enjoy many of the other great sports on offer.
The Long Wait is Over.
“Our club has taken a battering”.
Correct and what are Lawwell&co.,doing about it ?.Nothing,because they are working to Lawwell agenda,not in Celtic interest.
I dont think Lawwell will be at our club next season,this is him acting the big strong guy,any English clubs wanting a new CEO.Slan
I think the away support for Celtic have been magnificent in recent weeks especially, and not an add on, or illicit song in sight.
Superb Information Paul67,
here’s hoping someone takes a copy of the relevant information before the ISCJIS database suffers a ‘malfunction’. Illegal I know but in desperate times…
the long wait is over says:
13 December, 2011 at 17:46
monteblanco says:
13 December, 2011 at 17:17
As a football supporter, you wouldn’t be doing it right if you were never ever offensive at any point
with respect , really – even if youre over 12?
Only under twelves abuse linesmen, refs, opposition teams and fans? Only under twelves sing songs to offend all the aforementioned?
Really?
googybhoy
Why is it not appropriate to sing Republican songs in football stadia in contemporary Scotland yet you saw it as ok to do so as a youngster?
Not digging you up my friend I’m interested in your reasoning.
Just managed to catch up on the blog!
We will lose many fans through this IMO I think the board have factored this into their decision NOT to appeal this vague fudged UEFA directive.
Just exactly what song did Steady Eddy find so unappealing? Does anyone know for sure?
I posted this a while back that Eddie Smith travelled with the official party to away games.He sanctioned the targeting of the GB inside Celtic Park,surly with the knowledge of the board? Funny how he’s gone all shy now….this stinks to the heavens.
Eddie Smith also reported Celtic fans to the SPhell for chants that were not proven by them.
Now my point is that the huns were singing their usual sectarian stuff at Easter Road on Saturday why wasn’t this reported to the SPhell? as now the predecent has been set, was it because the Match Commanderfud had been a rankers season ticket holder?
Why did that bastion of virtue Pat (I’ll highlight Sectarianism when I hear it) Nevin not mention the songs of hate when her heard them, was his head stuck up somewhere?
If this is how they want to play it,well to can play that way. Though it comes down to trusting the Celtic Board after several episodes of inaction I have my doubts.
Oh and ban the lapdogs from Celtic Park,starting with Devlin,Kevins,Macleod, etc WHY invite these folk?
Mibee that match commander at easter road last saturday had a hearing impairment when the huns were spouting their bile…….betcha wee pat and delehun woulda picked it up………..you know how they liked to be informed
hamiltontim says:
13 December, 2011 at 18:16
There was a fight for equality and independence going on in N.Ireland at the time. It felt right then.
It does not now.
Also if the board does not know why it was fined it should appeal. If you got a parking ticket but were not clear why, what would do? If they know the reasons why not tell us ?
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Note the quote from Peter Lawwell today:- “However, this is a clear warning that such behaviour will not be tolerated and together, Celtic Football Club and our supporters will do all we can to ensure that this incident is not repeated.”
Well how about sharing with the Celtic fans the identity of the chant or chants that gave rise to the police match commander`s complaint to UEFA? This would be a good starting point.