It is positive news that we will not face the mid-season Swedish champions next week. Djurgardens are nowhere near as strong as Celtic, but they will be significantly fitter and by some way better than any team we have faced since Copenhagen in February.
At full strength, Ferencvaros are almost certainly a better team than Djurgardens, and they won through last night with the advantage of home soil, despite being only one game into their domestic campaign.
Unlike last season, their European record read like a history of Hungarian football over the last four decades. The four previous years brought only one aggregate win in European qualification, against Latvian opposition, with defeats to teams from Israel, Denmark, Albania, Bosnia and Netherlands.
That all changed in season 2019-20, when they eliminated Bulgarian, Maltese and Lithuanian opponents to reach the Europa League group stage. There, they drew home and away with Espanyol, beat CSKA in Moscow and took a point at home. Their campaign ended there, as despite having beat Bulgarians Ludogorets Razgrad home and away in a Champions League qualifying round, they lost their Europa League home game, could only draw away, and finished third in the table.
Ferencvaros record last season is enough to give Neil Lennon plenty to think about, but playing at Celtic Park against opponents no fitter than we are, is what we would have hoped for at this stage.
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AT @ 3.13 …
Arbitrage is the action of buying something cheap in one market to sell dear in another.
DD / the Irish Raj got involved with us with a view to getting us into the EPL and selling out to make s substantial profit.
I think we have been close on at least two occasions.
Also it explains our need to keep our friends in Govan afloat.
We are seemingly being sold to the EPL as a pair.
That was the plan 20 years ago — how things change.
st stivs.
enjoy your posts and pics.
I have been down your way for a walk round The Greenock “cut” the building of the waterworks dams and canals to enable water to flow into the then new build parts of the town.
last time I was down there,was a clear day,being able to see over to Argyll Arran with Greenock and the port below.i kept thinking of John Kelly’s description in his book IRISH of the “boat of faces”.
I was wondering do you know anything of the construction of the “cut”.Was it a big employer of the navvy?
hope all’s good down your way?
hh
Setting Free The Bears:-Pot 4 cannon fodder, and fight above their weight, to get the chance to be pumped rotten.
Fair Point, Setting Free The Bears, well if we can get there (CL Group Stages) it’s worth 30+Mill,
to watch our beloved Club, get spanked on a cold night, against Clubs who have a lot bigger
financial clout than our own. Remember this, winning is not everything, & what is Losing.
One should try & learn, from their mistakes in the past. & it’s also the occassion which counts,
when things get back to normality, which it will, it’s funny watching all those strangers who
come to these matches (CLGS) who do not have a scubie doo, which part of the Stadium
they are meant to be going into, (Gate Number) & also, no doubt a few business deals, will
be going down as well, that’s modern day footy for you, not just a social event, but also a
business event as well.
SFTB ‘@ 3.32
The splurge started in 1999 with the KD / JB combo.
Wee FMcC ran a pretty tight ship and when he went the spending really started.
MON made an erse of it with his lack of squad management and his old pals act with the contract extensions and the wage rises — however once DD has lost faith in him with his LU maneuverings it really was life in the slow lane although the KB from the EPL must have been sore as well.
Lots of opinions being forwarded about KT, and fair play to that of course. I prefer to emphasise facts where possible and what I saw with my own eyes, on numerous occasions, was Kieran being subjected to serious assaults on the park during SPHell games, without any protection from referees! One of the worst happened almost in front of his manager during a Motherwell game at Caeltic Park when he was stamped on the inside of his lower thigh, straight leg, studs up. The referee did not even whistle for a foul, his manager did not react (in Kieran’s defence) in any way.
Now for opinions. IF Kieran Tierney had kept on playing for us his career would have been likely to be cut short, due to serious and repetitive injury. He was a genuinely hard guy on the park, but no matter how hard you are you are still flesh and bone; your flesh can get cut open, your bones can be broken. Why the hell he ever represented Scotland, after the SFA’s referees were happy to watch him being kicked and stamped upon, baffled me. Well, that’s my opinion anyway.
Regarding players or managers leaving our club the question I always ask is that if someone is willing to treble or quadruple your wage to do your job in a much better working enviroment would you say no ? Kieran should have steered clear of social media comments as they are polluted with anonymous keyboard warriors I personally dont know any Celtic fan who wasn’t disappointed to lose him but hope he succeeds in England.
SFTB @ the recent past
If we were a buying club with an active youth policy and a productive scouting policy then we would not be Pot 4 cannon fodder.
With better management and a growth agenda from on high we would be in the mix.
You cannot corral all the talent into the same 16 teams year after year.
There are gaps and we need to exploit them.
However if the CEO and the manager are not aligned then we will be in trouble.
Look at the dross on show at the CL and EUL finals tournaments.
Quite a few of them are there for the taking if you have the talent / the desire / the belief.
We currently have only one of those and that is only partially correct after all the misses we have had in the recent past due to people playing games.
AT @ 11.40 — 2nd attempt
Thanks for the feedback — join the dots would be one way of putting it.
If you are based in Scotland and your voting history reflects that then you are either a middle class tree hugger / a Tommy Sheridan acolyte / a holier than thou pseudo Marxist micro party supporter …
Politics as an ego trip is never a good look.
So who do you vote for then?
Emerald Bee. \O/ A Double Niner.
Lots of opinions being forwarded about KT, and fair play to that of course. I prefer to emphasise facts where possible and what I saw with my own eyes, on numerous occasions, was Kieran being subjected to serious assaults on the park during SPHell games, without any protection from referees! One of the worst happened almost in front of his manager during a Motherwell game at Caeltic Park when he was stamped on the inside of his lower thigh, straight leg, studs up. The referee did not even whistle for a foul, his manager did not react (in Kieran’s defence) in any way.
Now for opinions. IF Kieran Tierney had kept on playing for us his career would have been likely to be cut short, due to serious and repetitive injury. He was a genuinely hard guy on the park, but no matter how hard you are you are still flesh and bone; your flesh can get cut open, your bones can be broken. Why the hell he ever represented Scotland, after the SFA’s referees were happy to watch him being kicked and stamped upon, baffled me. Well, that’s my opinion anyway.
Fair Point, & True. The Referee’s in Scotland come mainly from the South Lanarkshire Ludge (Lodge)
Cheating ‘B’s’ Huns With The Whistles, you know what I’m saying is True.
KT, should have chosen to play for the Republic of Ireland, why? Cause they have more success
@ the International Football (Results Wise) than Scotland, & that is a fact.
Rolling Stone
No idea about their CEO’s pay : I just know that ours is overpaid but ,e ven if he wasn’t, it doesn’t change the metrics of our situation.
Basel is a Tier 2 club currently because they have a much better recent historical record of winning European matches, especially Group matches.
We may be able to match them or better them for money, I genuinely don’t know, but money is only one of the factors involved in improving your team. Playing in a good competitive environment is the other. Our players are regularly playing lower half of the table teams filled with journmeymen freed by League Two and non-league teams in England, supplemented with a few promising youngsters and some loanees from biger clubs.
We really aren’t tested sufficiently in our 38 league season to be forced to improve our norm, and, at least, 6 times per season we will play on surfaces that reduce our skills advantage even further.
The Tier two teams tend to come from slightly bigger countries than us too
The Netherlands- 17m
Portugal- 10m
Greece- 10m
Switzerland- 8.6m
and the Dutch and Swiss have much better economies than ours too.
What happened to the Morelos money?
Greenwell’s
I’ve never heard Kieran cite the change of coaches from BR to NFL as a reason for going down south. He certainly did not follow BR to Leicester and I have no doubt that BR will have asked him to consider it.
What I do know is that the bad coach, NFL, managed to improve our domestic win rate in a season where Stevie G’s team massively improved theirs. If we were still operating domestically at BR’s level, then we could have lost that league. Thankfully, Neil improved us domestically, as the record shows.
A poster earlier said that Chris Sutton was a swap with Chelsea..he cost us £6M which proved great value but certainly no swap involved. We spent big during Martin’s first two seasons on players such as Sutton,Valgaeren,Thompson,Lennon and Hartson all of whom were on by our standards big money and all of whom left without any transfer fee the model was unsustainable and had to change.
BourneSoupRecipe:-What happened to the Morelos money?
It was papped under a Bus. (The Team Coach)
mm
thanks for your interpretation
I would suggest this is a different investment for Dermot.Things do change.
He has been involved early doors 94onwards.
He was involved in the recap when Fergus left.
He was involved in the recap to finance Mon
He was involved in restructure post Seville
He sets Peters parameters.
Your analysis could be true
it depends where Celtic are in his thinking.
with sky starting in 92,DD about since 94
you could say the other market is England until they voted it down that option.
2012 shows where DD as an individual lamented the loss the cheat.Res12 as a club cast his 44% holding.
maybe the other market may be some form of crumbs from ECA on a euroleague post covid.What effect post covid of lindsell.
A lot goin on but generally security and solidity as arecord in the market.alas that is here in Scotland until football gov bodies change rules on cross border play
hh
THE HAND OF GOD on 20TH AUGUST 2020 4:17 PM
A poster earlier said that Chris Sutton was a swap with Chelsea..he cost us £6M which proved great value but certainly no swap involved. We spent big during Martin’s first two seasons on players such as Sutton,Valgaeren,Thompson,Lennon and Hartson all of whom were on by our standards big money and all of whom left without any transfer fee the model was unsustainable and had to change.
That’s correct, The Hand of God, or our Club Finances, would have been papped in the Fire,
Fire, did-did-dee, yeah it’s ready to Burn. (shot down in flames)
AKBW
“Fair Point, Setting Free The Bears, well if we can get there (CL Group Stages) it’s worth 30+Mill, ”
I do want our club to be there as we earn more form it than we do in the Europa. It also allows us to attract better players who want that shop window with us.
It will not be £30m+ of pure profit, however, as players will earn substantial bonuses for reaching Group Stages, for position in the Group above 4th and for qualifyng for last 16.
Many fans, understandably, don’t care about the extra money as they dislike seeing us exposed at this level and prefer to be in the less competitive but still, frightening at the latter stages, Europa.
Have we signed a left back yet?
BSR
The Morelas money? It’s still in the Lille bank account…all £16 million of it . Until they up it .
Apparently ‘cough’!
Who would win a fiscal prudence fight between PL and the Lille CEO?
Glendalys
Who would win in a fight between Castore and Fruit of the Loom?
Greg Scott Brown skelper Docherty signs for Hull
£16 million buys you one fat cokeheid scowler or 4 Tom Rogic’s .
Apparently
Mad Mitch @ 3.51 and 3.58
I agree with some of those points but I am much less dismissive about the “dross” on display. We have a cheek to call AEK a “pub team” as we did, or to dismiss Cluj and Qarabag and Zagreb as impoverished selling clubs (what are we then?).
The record shows that we are quite regularly bested by some team of that calibre, and they are held up as an example of a team that is doing better than us, but it is not the same team that beats us every year, and sometimes we beat them, because, guess what, that is the calibre of Euro team that we are and apart from a brief period between 1966 and 1974, that is the kind of team we always were in Europe. A Fallen Giant with an over inflated opinion of ourselves, not shared by the Swedish, Romanian, Slovenian, Greek or Bulgarian teams that beat us.
I understand why we want to be Living in the 60’s but we really need to get up to date and recognise who we are.
Those days are not coming back. There is no going back to pre-Bosman, pre- TV money distortion, and pre-CL elite club hegemony
Setting Free The Bears:-
AKBW
“Fair Point, Setting Free The Bears, well if we can get there (CL Group Stages) it’s worth 30+Mill, ”
I do want our club to be there as we earn more form it than we do in the Europa. It also allows us to attract better players who want that shop window with us.
It will not be £30m+ of pure profit, however, as players will earn substantial bonuses for reaching Group Stages, for position in the Group above 4th and for qualifyng for last 16.
Many fans, understandably, don’t care about the extra money as they dislike seeing us exposed at this level and prefer to be in the less competitive but still, frightening at the latter stages, Europa.
You mean Fighting, in the later stages of the Europa League, each Season if possible.
Our Club’s main focus each Season, is to try & win the League, that is a fact.
To do well in European Compititions, Club’s have to have, a big useful & appropriate
Squad, that can face challenges on two fronts, (Domestically & European) & Club
Teams, have to be rotated accordingly, to handle the extra amount of Matches.
Lets be realistic here, what chance have we got, of winning a European Trophy, in
the foreseeable future? Their is too many obsticles in the way, to achieve that task.
So I can see the logic, with our Club staying focused on Domestic tasks which lays
ahead.
AT @ 4.21
For a micro Marxist you are very forgiving of DD’s efforts towards our club.
He is an Irish Raj lording over a Scottish football institution that he does not fully understand.
He does not have a growth agenda unless the Yahoos fae Govan upset him over a cup of tea.
Setting Free The Bears, & Don’t forget in the past, we have also lost to Norwegian, Swiz, & Danish Clubs
As well, in Europe, see what I mean about too many obsticles, & milestone achievement, to conquer
Europe nowadays, & also years ago, there was not as many matches, to play in Europe back then, as
it is nowadays.
MADMITCH on 20TH AUGUST 2020 3:46 PM
Can you explain your understanding of the word ‘close’
;)
Thanks
HH
Mad Mitch.
He is an Irish Raj lording over a Scottish football institution that he does not fully understand.
He does not have a growth agenda unless the Yahoos fae Govan upset him over a cup of tea.
Is DD, & Irish Raj from Edinburgh, really?
DD is a shrood Business Man, that keeps a very close eye on his shekels.
He is not going to throw money around, like it’s going out of fashion, no chance.
Mad (Raj) Mitch, you have seen that TV Program called “Dragons Den” Yes?
Well do you see the “Dragons” throwing money @ hopeless propositions? No.
SFTB @ 4.34
We are not a fallen giant — we are a lazy giant.
We have the Scottish cringe in spades — always looking for excuses to explain our own failure.
Blaming everything and everyone for our own failures rather than look at ourselves.
Dross on show — look at the 16 clubs in the recent CL / EuL finals competition.
There were not 16 crack outfits / sporting giants on show — there was the good the bad and the Barca.
With a fair wind we could have made that level if that was our goal — if all we are interested in is SPL pot hunting and heated driveway level bonuses then we will continue to fail and embarrass ourselves.
We should be aiming higher than Basel — Ajax should be our target.
The first question should be what do we need to do to get to their level?
And when they falter there will be other clubs that we can use as a target.
If we spent as much effort trying to better ourselves as we do in looking for excuses then we would be half way there.
ABKW … @ 4.57
We are not a hopeless proposition by any stretch of the imagination.
DD is very good at splashing everyone else’s money.
In a good year he takes money out the club.
The support put £60mill into the club.
Free market capitalism / the rentier economy in all its disgusting glory — discuss !?!
MADMITCH on 20TH AUGUST 2020 4:01 PM
AT @ 11.40 — 2nd attempt.
Thanks for the feedback — join the dots would be one way of putting it.
If you are based in Scotland and your voting history reflects that then you are either a middle class tree hugger / a Tommy Sheridan acolyte / a holier than thou pseudo Marxist micro party supporter …
Politics as an ego trip is never a good look.
So who do you vote for then?
————————————————
I simply vote for a socialist party. with a view to wealth redistribution.kinda big on that.
jeezo mm.
are you just fresh from a Murdoch school abuse(its so90s anyway)course lol and all because I don’t fit into a wee box in your head! dearie me.lonely box right enough:-))
i wish you well
am away to see if ma corn is well.
:-)
hh
T88 @ 4.50
Close = something CMcG couldn’t keep weans out of on a rainy day.
Where is VW when we need him as we do now …
AT @ 5.03
So why don’t you name this socialist party of yours …
Give them a bit of publicity.
I’m sure they could be doing with it.
Come on …
Don’t be shy.
MADMITCH on 20TH AUGUST 2020 5:03 PM
ABKW … @ 4.57
We are not a hopeless proposition by any stretch of the imagination.
DD is very good at splashing everyone else’s money.
In a good year he takes money out the club.
The support put £60mill into the club.
Free market capitalism / the rentier economy in all its disgusting glory — discuss !?!
Each Season the Supporters put 60 Mill into the Club, are you sure? Where did you
get that figure from? & I did not say, that we are in a hopeless position, now did I?
No. Yeah DD, probably does take money out of our Club, via His Shares Dividends.
I know you are Frustrated, due to our predicament in the modern day football World.
However, what do you suggest, that can take our Club further forward, as regards to
more success?
Mad Mitcch
“We should be aiming higher than Basel — Ajax should be our target.
The first question should be what do we need to do to get to their level?
And when they falter there will be other clubs that we can use as a target.
If we spent as much effort trying to better ourselves as we do in looking for excuses then we would be half way there.”
If you don’t know what it is that Ajax and Basel are doing to get to that level, how can you replicate it or want to replicate it?
Tommy Burns, amongst hundreds of other coaches, visited the Ajax Academy, and came back and helped us to build Lennoxtown. That and the coaching methds he saw have been introduced to Celtic for a long time now- yet we don’t routinely dleiver.
And you know what – Neither does Ajax- they have one good season- their best players are then predated upon by bigger clubs, and they get knocked back in amongst the also rans again.
Basel , Benfica and Olympiakos, regular last 16 particpants all, found that an occasional visit to the quarters or a very rare semi-final appearance was as good as it gets this mllenium.
All these clubs come up against very real limitations (one man’s reasons are another mean’s excuse) in their bid to be better than their ascribed lot. No matter how well they trade and trade up in players, every year, English and Spanish and Italian and German and French clubs can spend many tines more- even the dumb ones- because they get the free Steroid money from TV.
I am never impressed by the back bar revolutionary telling those charged with doing it that they are messing it up and there is a simple way of doing it better so go away and do it.
That is not ambition- that is expecting someone to make your wishes come true,
When asked to operationalise this simple route to success, the bets attempt at operationalising the approach I hear is , the frankly feeble:-
Don’t buy duds!
Buy better players !
Get better coaches!
Recruit better young players!
That is a wish list not a plan.
If there was some Moneyballs metric for continued success for a disadvantaged team to punch further above their weight- What exactly is it? When did you stumble upon it? and Why are you not off making a surefire fortune by implementing it?
Answee- because it is much more comfortable and comforting to stand back and lob criticisms at those actually trying to do it than it is to go and put your theories to the test and come back with your tail in a hidden position within your lower limbs.
I find the ghuys who are disparaging about our Euro opponents and who are predicting easy wins are the very ghuys that tear the Club/Players/Management to bits when things go wrong,
If we are entitled to go away & beat Lazio then the likes of Cluj are entitled to come to Celtic Park & beat us
.
However why are we talking about European Football at all. We have a hugely interesting extremely important game on Sunday against Dundee United. Points at this stage of League are worth the same as games next Feb/March, It’s points earned or lost in these games will decide whether we win the 10 in a row,
Personally I haven’t seen any footage at all of Dundee United.
Are they a strong physical team or a footballing side, can we expect them to have a go or are they likely to sit in & try and catch us on the break etc etc,
I for one would love to be reading posts about our most important match i.e, The next one.
Westcraigs (from earlier) ….
“Maybe some celtic supporters back then thought that big billy was a rat face and snake eyes.”
I’m guessing you aren’t old enough to have been around at the time but even so I’d suggest you would find no Celtic supporter then or at any time and under any circumstances who ever described Billy in that way!