I have two significant concerns about Walter Smith’s comments yesterday. He spoke about the events which followed Rangers liquidation in 2012:
“There was no necessity for Rangers to be put down into the Third Division.
“That will always stay in Scottish football. There will be a bitterness in the Rangers ranks. It will be a massive motivation for the club. It would certainly be for me.
“How can they forget what happened to them? Nobody could forget that.”
I’ve spoken to people at Celtic about security concerns ahead of the weekend. The game itself will almost certainly pass off without incident, but what happens on the streets of Glasgow and surrounding towns is anyone’s guess.
You will hear nothing even close to inflammatory from Celtic, senior fans groups, or anyone who cares about the club’s fans and wellbeing. Justifying bitterness due to (mis)perceived persecution ahead of this fixture is inciteful. I’m astonished Smith said this.
On his subject matter, let me give you an alternative scenario:
Newco Rangers are parachuted straight into the Premier League, hundreds of creditors are abandoned, they have a full squad of players and are not a penny in debt. They would have been out signing players within minutes of registration (they even tried to sign a player while still in administration).
With Oldco having won the league accumulating debts they would never pay in 2009, 2010 and 2011, Newco, free of legacy financial commitments, would have an excellent chance of winning again in 2013 and beyond.
This plan was one strand of Craig Whyte’s lunacy and it would have killed Scottish football. Celtic, and others, would have been left to consider, do we pay these millions of debts, or liquidate and spend the money on players instead? I had this very conversation with a senior figure in the game in October 2011, when the realisation of what Whyte was planning became evident. Utter mayhem would have ensued.
The damage done to the Rangers brand of clubs by allowing Newco access only to the bottom tier was huge. It’s consequences are yet to be appreciated by most fans. Newco may never win a top flight league.
But the question was not whether to impose a trauma on ‘Rangers’ or allow everyone to carry on as we had before, this was not an option. It was whether to allow the existing rules and processes to stand, allow responsibility for the enormous mismanagement of Rangers to be carried primarily by Newco, and have other clubs deal with the fallout, with or without a ‘Rangers’ club in the league.
Whyte’s plan replicated what he’d done in other industries, but it would have devastated Celtic in particular. We were beaten for years on the field by a team who could not pay their bills or correctly register their players, then we would be beaten again as they walked away from debts without consequence, which is why I wrote this article in October 2011 on the Prepack route for Rangers Newco.
Pretty much all of what I wrote about in that article came to pass, it had to be stopped (and you’ll never know the key movers in doing so). Smith should consider if the boot was on the other foot, if he would be happy to allow his club to be subverted in the manner he suggests would be good enough for others. It was simply never an option.
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Green Pinata,
We will meet for a pint and you will have no problem getting your say, you only need to ask BRTH and Auldheid about that, they can babble for Europe, I only intervene when they’ve babbled that long they’ve forgot the point :)
I always find it funny that the most used justification for blind faith in our board is to use the example of the hun board took their club to the wall, yet the people using the argument seem to ignore the most important point why the hun board were allowed to take them to the wall.
Huns seem to be getting very excited about Sunday .
Got to cut them a little bit of slack .
Celtic will be playing at the semi final stage for a record 70th time .
Sevco have only got this far twice in their history .
HH
Over the past while I’ve been watching Celtic games from the ’80s when on the treadmill at the gym. Almost every time I’m reminded of what an incredible player Paul McStay was for us.
His vision, accuracy of pass and energy was phenomenal.
Anybody heard from KevJ recently? If you’re lookin in Kev, I’m sure you must have an opinion on what the Cardigan spouted.
Keep on keepin on. Remember not everyone has the same outlook on life’s difficulties.
HH
YNWA in the Jungle
I realise the John James blog I linked to in my last post is based on an extract of info released earlier by Auldheid
Apple-ogies
From Dharma Bam`s John James link above:
“Chic Young, of BBC Trumpton, who recently discarded his St. Mirren beard to reveal the worst kept secret in Scottish football that he was and has always been a Rangers supporter,”
Can anyone enlighten me about that?
JJ
Auldheid’s link;
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6uWzxhblAt9YXRXSWtIUV9YWUU/view?pref=2&pli=1
Pity we could not get a copy of MIH list, I wonder how many people in the game are mentioned on that list.
There’s a bit of old Walt’s interview that seems to have gone unnoticed.
He said that they were five days away from the 2012-13 season with only five players.
Now being that they would have finished the previous season with 25-30 players, what happened to the rest?
We know the likes of Naismith and Whittaker walked away. And that the “same club” (despite their financial difficulties) didn’t ask for any transfer fees for them.
But what happened to the rest?
How could the same club have 30 players, lose a few and end up with five….?
Anyone got any `inside` information on the rather strange case of Gavin Gunning at Dundee United?
JJ
Canamalar
I bow to BRTH’s knowledge on this point.
MWD
Now that MIH is being liquidated, can a copy of HMRC’s ebt related tax determinations associated with the same period be accessed or requested by interested parties ?
Just popped my head in, looks like a gripey session.
Kill Ultra absolutely Kills me. Why on earth does he believe that any man or woman who has shelled out money to support the Res 12 cause would be interested in meeting up with him. If it was me and it isn’t I would certainly refuse to meet him.
Apart from that ongoing cameo the usual players are indeed in panto mode so I will exit stage left and leave them at it.
Check later to see if there is any football chat.
Football stars facing huge bills over tax avoidance
Sir Alex Ferguson was among a host of City figures and celebrities in Eclipse 35, an investment scheme that created tax relief worth £117 million
Sir Alex Ferguson
Sir Alex Ferguson was among a host of City figures and celebrities in Eclipse 35, an investment scheme that created tax relief worth £117 million Martin Rickett/PA
Alexi Mostrous Special Correspondent
Published at 12:01AM, April 14 2016
This article was shared by a Times and Sunday Times member.
Hundreds of wealthy investors in one of Britain’s largest tax avoidance schemes face having to pay out huge sums after the Supreme Court finally closed the door on a seven-year battle with Revenue & Customs.
Sir Alex Ferguson, the former Manchester United manager, and Sven-Göran Eriksson, the former England manager, were among a host of City figures and celebrities in Eclipse 35, a £1 billion film investment scheme with Disney that created tax relief worth £117 million.
After taking out loans to buy distribution rights to two Disney films, Enchanted and Underdog, Eclipse 35 swiftly leased the film rights back to the film producer for a payment spread over 20 years. If Eclipse 35 had worked, members could have enjoyed an average of £404,000 in tax relief on a personal investment of £173,000.
Britain’s highest court yesterday rejected Eclipse 35’s permission to appeal, hammering the final nail into a case that has seen investors defeated in four lower courts. All previous judges accepted HMRC’s argument, first made in 2009, that Eclipse 35 never carried on a trade, a prerequisite for investors to qualify for tax relief.
“I’m afraid we’ve heard nothing that persuades us that the Court of Appeal went wrong in this case,” said Lord Neuberger, president of the Supreme Court.
Nearly 300 members now face tax bills of multiple times their cash investment because of the leverage involved. One businessman has calculated that he faces a tax bill of between £5 million and £7 million on an original investment of £300,000. Others have accepted they will go bankrupt.
Tim Levy, founder of Future Capital Partners (FCP), which promoted Eclipse 35, said the financial crisis of 2008 had “changed everything” in terms of how film schemes were regarded.
“Between 2005 and 2007 the tax take was growing, the UK had a budget surplus, the economy was good, everyone was happy,” he told The Times.
“No one was worked up about these types of transactions. In the environment we are in today, they look like egregious and unacceptable tax avoidance schemes. But that’s not the way they were viewed.” HMRC has successfully shut down dozens of film investment schemes set up in the wake of incentives introduced in 1997 by Gordon Brown, the chancellor at he time. The schemes quickly migrated from supporting small British movies to financing some of Hollywood’s biggest blockbusters for the purpose of generating tax relief.
In 2012 Dave Hartnett, then the head of HMRC, described film schemes as nothing more than “scams for scumbags”. He predicted, accurately, that the Revenue would “clean up on film schemes over the next few years”.
The Financial Services Compensation Scheme has received more than 140 claims from investors alleging that they were misled by advisers.
Eclipse 35 was designed by HSBC, which earned about £8 million for devising the structure. HSBC licensed the scheme to FCP, which began marketing it in 2006 and promoted more than 30 film-financing partnerships.
The Eclipse 35 defeat could have far-reaching consequences on other film scheme cases, experts said. At least one appeal involving a tax scheme set up for Patrick Degorce, a hedge fund manager, had been put on hold pending the decision. However, since the Eclipse case only decided that the partnership was not trading, investors may challenge attempts by HMRC to claim back more in tax than they invested in cash.
Glasstwothirds
Although that is a good point, the Sevconian reply is always the same: Ah, but that was the Company that lost the players. The Club is a separate entity allowed to do what it wants.
Anyway, it is a cheerio from me as I am in a Golf Match at Arbroath V Carnoustie,
JJ
S.F.T.B. 14TH APRIL 2016 10:17 AM
No.
Your reference to ” right wing Tory ” views was a childish effort to discredit .
Absolutely no relevance to my ” apples and oranges ” description.
A cheap shot.
TSD/Kojo/The Donald etc;?
T.S.D. ………….where?
Kojo………………where ?
Bullied off the blog.That`s where.
“Oh! When did we move on from that? Because I am sure that it was cliques that were referenced this morning not bullying.”
It`s the cliques who bully.
See examples above.
“I think bullying, which is a far more serious matter than these wee spats, should be avoided and I disapprove of it as much as you do. But I am pleading Not Guilty here.”
I don`t in any way consider you to be a bully.
Precisely why I would look for you support in calling it out.
So far, I have looked in vain.
macjay
Who then did you consider a bully?
Who do you think is in a clique?
Why do you think that the poster behind Kojo/TSD has gone away rather than changed posting names as was his habit since he was Noah the Gnu before CQN existed?
And BTW- I did call out bullying. I just disagreed that the example you gave was one of bullying.
Alanis Morisette had a similar difficulty with her understanding of Irony.
My friends in Celtic,
Off topic, if there is a topic this morning.
There must be a better deal, although Vodafone seem unable to give us one.
Daughter spends a lot of time in Dublin and Donagal with her Boyfriend.
Spends ( or rather I spend ) three pounds GBP. Per day On Euro- traveller for even one text? If she’s there two weeks at a time this fairly mounts up. £21 pw on top of her normal monthly tariff .
With the university’s finishing up soon, has anybody got a better plan rather than Facebook or E- mail.?
Hail, Hail.
Afternooooooooon all.
Any more huns been dragged oot today in scoddland for bitterness talk ?
itsearlyyetisupposeCSC
GREENPINATA
https://www.whatsapp.com/
It’s free -)))
You`re interested in my opinion?
I don`t think so.
My interest is in the health of OUR blog.
That`s in our interests.
Can we agree on that ?
Gnu ?
Wildebeeste . No ?
The temptation to simply post “Bunch of babies” and see how it’s interpreted is very strong.
CORKCELT on 14TH APRIL 2016 10:56 AM
Just popped my head in, looks like a gripey session.
Kill Ultra absolutely Kills me. Why on earth does he believe that any man or woman who has shelled out money to support the Res 12 cause would be interested in meeting up with him. If it was me and it isn’t I would certainly refuse to meet him.
Apart from that ongoing cameo the usual players are indeed in panto mode so I will exit stage left and leave them at it.
Check later to see if there is any football chat.
———–
Why on earth indeed! The reason I thought I was to be granted a meeting was because I had received an invite from Auldheid. This offer, posted on CQN in the form of a veiled threat to me, was withdrawn after I had accepted to meet the irate benefactor face to face.
————
Canamalar. You’re rewriting history. How many of the 100 signatories thought that two and a half years later the reasons they signed up to would still be unresolved; that Celtic Plc’s wishes to kick into the long grass had been granted. We had the chance to bury the Huns but you went along with the Plc to keep the Old Firm freak show on the road.
You’ve the cheek to refer to Mr. Pastry as Patsy. How ironic! And how ironic too, that you and he are really on the same (Celtic Plc) page, but he doesn’t know it. You can fool some of the people….
If it wasn’t so sad it would be funny.
Weeminger,
So it’s the Babies clique who are bullying us now?
BURGAS HOOPS on 14TH APRIL 2016 11:12 AM
Many thanks, that looks the business:-)))))))))
How did she not think of that. What do they teach them at Uni these days. Defoe not common sense??
Cheers and Thanks again.
Mark-C.
kill ultra,
there was far more than 100, and there was never a timescale given, in fact I posted on here that we were in it till the end, the long haul, any timescale is in your head.
Like I said many times and repeated for your benefit, the result will be the fruit of res12 and when that result comes you will be satisfied that you supported it, even with the bitter taste in your mouth.
You’ll Never Walk till you are 1.
Squeal! Squeal!
The Celtic Lullaby Song
Hampden In The Sun Screen
Soldiers Are Wee
MWD
Just wondering, did anyone ask Wattie, “but didn’t you guys want us all to put this whole sorry business behind us and move along…?.”
MWD,
The Broad Black Stroller
Let The people teethe
Hmmmmm Roberts?
http://celtsarehere.com/celtic-could-be-in-a-spot-of-bother/
Greenpinata,
What (sapp) burgas said!
HH
Once again we all have our opinions on Resolution 12 Canalamar an Auldheid believe it is progressing and I assume are hopeful that they will get an answer .Others and I include myself in this group believe the Board have actually taken the Resolution and slowed it down before kicking it into the long grass.So who is right well at the moment that is impossible to say after more than 3 years it is still a waiting game and while I hope Resolution 12 succeeds I think that is very unlikely but we have waited over 3 years so can wait a little longer to see the outcome. H.H.
First, HT says we Canajun fans don’t matter, and now SFTB slagging off our beloved national treasure, Ms. Morrisette! Unacceptable!
I will be having a word with young Mr. Trudeau. I am thinking an embargo … Let’s see how you lot get on without butter tarts (a Canadian delicacy), maple syrup, poutine, Celine Dion, the Tragically Hip, and Justin Beiber!
——-
Y not67on 14th April 2016 10:03 am
Hamiltontim
You mean it reads like a threat? Not at all just advice. I’v met you as I said, and I know the North American Celtic Supporters (most of them and they are all true Tims to a man) I just can’t vision you standing in conversation with one of them and saying….I don’t think you have the right to pontificate when you live in Canada….. All I’m saying is, it wouldent go down very well, IMO that is.
————–
My Dear Tony D.
Or ” Big Rollin’ Thunder”….
As Ye Are Better Known As..
Within The Tribe…
Can We Meet Up For A Pow-Wow Doon The Brazen Heid….?
Sink A Few Sasparillas An’ Skwerrrr Sausage Sandwiches…..
Then We Could Roond-Up The Braves….
An’ Some Of They Turkish Barbers…
An’ Take A Few Scalps….
Fae Sh*ttin’ Frae The Bear’s CLIQUE…!
Agreed..??
Great Walkin’ Eagle
~~~~
JFH,
just another wee reminder, Res12 was adjourned at the AGM of Nov 2013, how does that make it over 3 years ago ?
This is the second time I have corrected you on this recently.
However if it takes another three years (which it wont) and gets a result I would still consider it successful.
It was interesting watching Benfica last night. Throughout history we have been ‘twinned’ with them I think. We simply have to get back to being competitive in Europe again. not against crap like Red Bull and Malmo, but against Munich, Barca etc. Not winning even, just competitive for now.
CANAMALAR
Time you woke up to the fact that there are some people using these pages to distract you from the job in hand-nailing all those contractors who have been using dodgy practices to line their pockets!
Get back to work,ffs.
PS-thanks for your efforts on that wee Res 12 thing too.
Canalamar.Fella im getting auld and I dont remember you correcting me in the past.Answer this question how long ago is it since resolution 12 was first mooted on CQN ? H.H.