I spoke to Phil Mac Giolla Bhain, a man who wears his Republican heritage on his sleeve, about the hostile reaction to his comments on modernising the Celtic songbook a few months back. Phil found himself to be an easy target for conspiracy theorists who turned on him for issuing a request to an end of political chanting. I’m sure Neil Lennon will not find anything like the same reaction to his comments in the Sun today, but it remains to be seen if anyone listens.
Neil said, “It’s important that we put a general message out that these chants have no place around our club. To be honest, we are better than that as a club and we always have been, we just don’t need it.
“We are and always have been a club open to all and we do not have issues around sectarianism. We have our own values and traditions but they do not include these chants. We don’t want them at matches and they must stop.”
This is not the first time Neil has given the same message this year. After his earlier comments I actually heard, “Who is Neil Lennon to tell me what I can and can’t sing? I’ve been going to Celtic Park a lot longer than he has.”
We are in a classic social paradox. The reputational damage of political singing is not felt by those who sing, and the risk of personal consequences arising for any individual singer is probably around 1%. And let’s be honest here, for all the supportive flags, banners and “I’m Neil Lennon” proclamations, is Neil respected enough to be listened to, or has he become a modern Che Guevara-poster boy?
Whatever you think of Neil, or his rights to say what you can or cannot sing, he has the best interests of our club in mind whenever he speaks on this subject.
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Hi Ghuys, Salve salve;- here’s a thought, What if Celtic added an appendage to their letter of explanation to the UEFA committe on the appropriateness of an organisation which employs a man who was ousted from his position with a member association, for circulating e mails of an overt sectarian nature ? It might lend weight to any argument put forward that there was some unconventional practices involved with the reporting of this case to UEFA.
Greenwells
Homo praesumitur bonus donec probetur malus.
Thomthetim,
If you;re splashing out The Roman Camp is pretty impressive. I’ve only ever been to weddings there, though.
Raymac,
I’m not sure if that’s supposed to flatter. You’ve got me wrong, but I imagine my mum would be proud…
You asked me Canalmar’s questions again. I answered him and I answered you. It was a simple question, and I just couldn’t see what it had to do with the posts I’d made. I think others dealt with the confused nature of Canalmar’s point well. If you want to explain why you were asking, I’ll consider a response, but if it’s some mind-bendingly obtuse connection between the Rangers Tax Case and Neil Lennon’s statement, then, well… I don’t know, maybe I’d prefer not to bother.
Good evening friends.
Only 43-and-a-bit hours till kick off. Woo-hoo!
Jobo
Can we not all just accept that, whilst it may be difficult to accept that certain songs are illegal, it is not difficult to suggest that they may be inappropriate?
I would suggest that a good definition of “inappropriate” is that they are likely to reflect badly on the Club we all purport to love, a stance vindicated over the years by the likes of Jock Stein as well as Neil Lennon. Their ratification is all that supporters like me need. The songs in question would be any that glorify any branch of the Irish Republican Army.
I would suggest that those who try to split hairs about the legality of singing these have their own agenda, which they are attempting to push at the expense of what is in the best interests of my football club.
I would also suggest that they take their agendas elsewhere, as I have no doubt there are far more appropriate venues for singing about Irish Republicanism than at a football match.
jockcfc says:
17 November, 2011 at 17:02
Not having a go here mate but you seem to be falling into that trap that the media have set. The GB have, as far as I can see, actively sought to bring an end to sectarian songs at Celtic Park. The media are attacking the GB in an effort to turn the rest of the Celtic against them and divide us. See for that 120 year history you talked about, is it only since the GB were formed that we’ve sung IRA songs? See at an away game the GB are in the minority.
BontyBhoy says:
17 November, 2011 at 17:17
No splashing out. Certainly not on the B&B front.
A dry bed and a wet bar would be my speed.
Ray Singh-Carr says:
17 November, 2011 at 17:20
It’s not difficult to accept those songs as illegal because they’re not, ()et) but I agree that the innapropriate or not should be the focus of discussion.
Thomthetim,
In which case, I think The Waverly is likely to be the best… I’m hesitant, because there’s a really good pub with accomodation, and from memory I’m sure that’s it and then there’s another nearby which isn’t so good. Depending on time of year there are chalet’s and caravans galore.
The official biography of Rangers has just been released …. Talk about timing
Breathtaking stuff on CQN this week.
Board says stop it, Lenny says stop it, significant number of fans say stop it.
So where does this take us.
Afghanistan , ancient battles, religious wars, human rights and on and on.
Oh and I forgot – “Tell me exactly which songs” as I’m too daft to work it out.
Guys there is only one outcome. The songs that mention the IRA are going to stop.
They will stop one of many ways.
1. By the fans getting behind the request of the board and the manager.
2. With a lot of Celtic fans in court.
3. With our name dragged through the mud by journos.
4. By points deductions
It is our choice.
I personally love the Green Brigade and I don’t want a single one of them arrested. They add so much to Celtic. Do the right thing lads – ignore the people who want to take us back move forward with what you do best – innovate with songs like just can’t get enough, come on you bhoys in Green, discoland etc.
Bhontybhoy – great work.
Seville67
No More pro i r a songs to be sung by our supporters home or away ,personaly its getting embarassing listening to these rebel songs. lets all move on
bournesouprecipe says:
17 November, 2011 at 17:29
The official biography of Rangers has just been released …. Talk about timing
……………………..
Do they not say your life flashes before your eyes just before you die?
gorbalstam
i don’t think any sectarian songs are sung at celtic games but the IRA songs are coming from the green brigade section of the stadium at home games, everyone can hear that. i think they do a great job of creating an atmospher at the ground and i would not like to see them go. i’m from coatbridge i was brought up with rebel songs but they have no place at celtic park…
BRS says
17 November, 2011 at 17:29
The official biography of Rangers has just been released
——————————————————————–
What’s it called? “Buddy can you spare a dime?”
HH
Sir Pal
By the way.. and By the By..
Ah hiv his a Tete tae Teter wi , Ma Big Pal. The Pookah..
oan this Subject…whit is in the windae..
and.,. The Pookah Says..
That , as faur as he kin read in the Tea Leaves.. Na.. An kidding.. he didnae say that.. that’s whit Alyss diz..
But..He DID say , THIS…
He says the as far as He kin See..
Celtic, wull NO BE PUNISHED.. By Eufa…fur this Reported Infringement of the Rules by
a Small group of Supporters.
Case closed.
Kojo
Kojo says:
17 November, 2011 at 16:53
Spot on!
HH
M
Seville67 says:
17 November, 2011 at 17:31
See if the GB stop singing songs about the RA, do you think these songs will not be sung at away games?
RANGERS Football Club has donated a number of auction items for a fundraising event in Glasgow on Sunday celebrating the festival of Diwali.
Diwali, also known as the Festival of Lights, is observed by Hindus, Sikhs and Jains in October and November every year and is a celebration of the victory of good over evil and the uplifting of spiritual darkness.
There is a special Diwali event in Glasgow this weekend at Partick Burgh Hall – organised by the fundraising committee for the New Central Gurdwara (Temple) on Berkeley Street Glasgow – and all funds raised will go towards the first ever purpose built Sikh Temple in Scotland at a cost of approx £6.5million.
Whats with the flirtation with India, has Whyte got his fingers in some Indian curries?
Well done Neil Lennon.
How many times has it to be said that these I.R.A. chants are WRONG and are damaging the club . We have plenty of good Celtic songs. We don’t need them and don’t want them.The modern I.R.A. are not freedom fighters. They are terrorists and even in the ‘Troubles’ , they did not enjoy great popularity – see ‘Ireland in the 20th Century’ by Tim Pat Coogan. Let’s stop giving our enemies sticks to beat us with. Let’s get to-gether and support the team instead of argueing with ourselves.
gorbalstam says:
17 November, 2011 at 17:34
Seville67 says:
17 November, 2011 at 17:31
See if the GB stop singing songs about the RA, do you think these songs will not be sung at away games?
—————————————————————————————————————————————–
I don’t know. I hope so.
However first priority to stop it at Celtic Park.
Seville67
Seville67 says:
17 November, 2011 at 17:36
Fair enough, but I don’t think it will and I’m worried that Celtic fans make this about just the GB modifying their benaviour. The media have seen how good they’ve been for us and don’t like it.
http://www.cici.org.uk/CICITrainingStrathclydePolice.htm
So ACC Corrigan has decided his Boyd in blue require to be trained in celebrating identify, whilst challenging intolerance.
I reckon they were very tolerant after the LC final when the currants were celebrating their identify through sectarian songs.
Move along Timmy, nothing to see here. In fact your nicked!!!
HH
CRC
jockcfc says:
17 November, 2011 at 17:02
i for one think the green brigade bring a great and very much needed atmospher to celtic park but if they want to and continue to sing IRA songs kick them out. we survived for 120 years as a club without them. i would not like to see this happen but they are not bigger tham the club and never will be…
………….
You’re assuming quite a bit there, I was under the impession the GB were trying to bring a bit of atmosphere to Celtic Park, and they have.
Having been a regular in the jungle back in the day I’d say the GB are fairly consistently singing Celtic songs and introduced more than a few additional songs than the jungle days, and the Irish songs they sing are available widely in good records across the UK, heck NL can even go into the Celtic shop and buy them.
With an attitude like your’se, it’ll be get the GB first then go for the rest.
Every Celtic supporter should be wary of this legislation.
For the record. It’s seems to be two songs which are acceptable but not the add ons.
Ooooh aaaah up the Celts.
V
V
Boyd=boys
gorbalstam
if the IRA songs don’t stop the board WILL get rid of the green brigade section. none of us want this but it will happen if it continues. fact
RSC/greenjedi
Couldn’t even finish on an even number.
I see that the general, sweeping statements with regards to the songs debate continues.
I worryingly read arguments evolve from being about alleged ‘illicit’ chants,
to a presumption that some are being offensive,
as a base for their assertions.
Something judged to be offensive, as everyone knows, is completely subjective.
To claim that something is offensive, what is potentially offensive and why it is offensive,
has to be justifiable.’Just because’ and ‘you know what/why’, just doesn’t cut it in an adult discussion.
Yet it remains a continued theme.
Also, for those wish to claim on the behalf of the majority. Please consider that just because
people do not choose to sing certain songs, does not automatically qualify the claim that, they find them
either ‘offensive’ or disagree with someone else’s write to do so.
As others have pointed out some have wilted at the first signs of trouble,
taken in by the media spin. I despair !
Others though, choose to round on a section of our own support with their divisive rhetoric,
and would gladly feed them to the dogs as they misguidedly see themselves as ‘better than that’.
This i find disgusting, as its just not what the Celtic ‘family’ do.
All my days , my own family has always looked out for me,even into my adult years.
Even when i got it wrong, even when i didn’t deserve their help,
even when it wasn’t their problem and they had their own lives do get on with,
they have always been there when needed.
Looking after and protecting your own, that which you love and care for,
that is my understanding of family,
that is my understanding of Celtic, because, its just what good people do !
Are we being played? Whilst thinking that IRA songs should be stopped at Celtic Park, the sheer hypocrasy and injustice of the way we are being treated by the government, police, media et al, has me ready to jump on my seat and get everyone going with a rendition of Come Out You Black and Tans. If it does that to me, what is it doing to those who already think they are appropriate? They aren’t going to say, even if it’s coming from Mr Lennon or Lawwell or Phil, that’s a well reasoned argument against singing the songs. We will keep to entirely Celtic songs. I can’t help but feel a trap is being set for us. Ditch the direct references to the RA. Give is “We Shall Overcome” or find an old Jungle hand who remembers the “Tiocfaidh ár lá. Our DAy Will Come” chant went. Be smart. I’m just glad I go to the matches sober.
Vmhan♣ who Supports Neil Lennon says:
17 November, 2011 at 17:41
jockcfc says:
17 November, 2011 at 17:02
i for one think the green brigade bring a great and very much needed atmospher to celtic park but if they want to and continue to sing IRA songs kick them out. we survived for 120 years as a club without them. i would not like to see this happen but they are not bigger tham the club and never will be…
………….
You’re assuming quite a bit there, I was under the impession the GB were trying to bring a bit of atmosphere to Celtic Park, and they have.
Having been a regular in the jungle back in the day I’d say the GB are fairly consistently singing Celtic songs and introduced more than a few additional songs than the jungle days, and the Irish songs they sing are available widely in good records across the UK, heck NL can even go into the Celtic shop and buy them.
With an attitude like your’se, it’ll be get the GB first then go for the rest.
Every Celtic supporter should be wary of this legislation.
For the record. It’s seems to be two songs which are acceptable but not the add ons.
Ooooh aaaah up the Celts.
V
V
…………………………………………………………………….
with an atitude like mine there would be no need to go and get anyone…
My dear,dear,dear,dear,friend.. Saltires en Sevilla
Thanks Pal, fur the Nod.
Much Appreciated.
Even,if Celtic Dodge this Bullet…and.. Like the Big Guy says..
There wull be Nae Sanctions etc being haunded doon tae us.. by
the Guid Folks At.. EUFA..oan THIS OCCASION.
If there Are …Still… A Determined Group of Fans who Remain under the impression
that it is O.K. tae Continue singing these Controversial Hosannas tae the I.R.A
Provisional or No Provisional…
The Next Time..
That Bullet will hiv Eyes.. and wull SEEK us OOt…and, will Ping us .. Severely..
In Ma opinion.
This Singing of Songs .. that are No Popular wi the Establishment..
Must Cease..
Fur we kin Be lucky. only So many Times..
And the Next time.. …
Kojo
yer pal. who likes ye aloater
Gorbalstam
I think some people think there is an implicit criticism of the GB or any implied opinion about the broad collection of songs we sing in my contributions. There has been no word of criticism about GB from me, and beyond concerns about the IRA stuff I’m not too different from the next fan.
So to that end, you should have no concerns that a fan like me wants anything other than the continued positive influence of the GB. Just like the manager said they have been great for us, and a minority aren’t getting on board with, in my view, the rest.
Have we got a game this weekend ?
Now the head of FIFA is caught up in a Swiss Roll a severe punishment may be about to be handed down to the next malcreants (US!!) I know it is UEFA controlled but the silence from PLATINI is deafening. One final point lads, bin the songs bag the points!
I think the board are guilty by buying 2 Camaras, a Samaras, having a Bangura in the wings and they’re seemingly after Diawarra too.
They better not get any Raa Raa girls in or Jabba et al will lose it completely.
Seville,
Meant to say thanks. And good points from yourself there too.
Is The Roll Oh Honour allowed?
Is Aidan McAnespie allowed?
jockcfc says:
17 November, 2011 at 17:42
gorbalstam
‘if the IRA songs don’t stop’
Can you list the songs which are currently sung which have to stop?
BontyBhoy says:
17 November, 2011 at 17:47
Gorbalstam
I think some people think there is an implicit criticism of the GB or any implied opinion about the broad collection of songs we sing in my contributions. There has been no word of criticism about GB from me, and beyond concerns about the IRA stuff I’m not too different from the next fan.
So to that end, you should have no concerns that a fan like me wants anything other than the continued positive influence of the GB. Just like the manager said they have been great for us, and a minority aren’t getting on board with, in my view, the rest.
share
…………………………………………………………………………….
no one that loves celtic wants the green brigade to but they have to drop one or two songs or the board will remove them and there goes the great atmospher