When engaging in a civil case under Scots Law, where one witness’ testimony contradicts another, a sheriff will rule not just on what witnesses actually say, but on their demeanour, assertiveness, body language and other perceivable traits (I’m no lawyer but I’ve first-hand experience of this).
Alek Tonev’s SFA Appeal panel, faced with contradictory evidence, explained their decision on this basis, “Tonev gave his evidence in a guarded and hesitant manner”, whereas Shay Logan “gave his evidence in a careful and measured manner”.
Alek, Celtic, you and me are free to disagree with this verdict, or cite the fact that the player may have appeared hesitant because he was so uncomfortable speaking English, he attended with an interpreter (who was unused). In these circumstances hesitancy appears normal, I can’t imagine speaking at a hearing conducted in French with anything but hesitancy, so to find against the player on this basis is blatantly incongruous, but that is a side point.
Celtic threatened to take the SFA to the Council of Arbitration for Sport (CAS). My hunch is that before this Appeal was rejected, the SFA’s counsel confirmed that the panel were able to judge on matters of demeanour and manner.
CAS do not re-hear cases. In this instance, they will only determine if the grounds on which the decision was made, and subsequent punishment, were within the rules of the governing body which conducted the appeal. It is inconceivable that the SFA, who employed counsel, would return a verdict which they knew could be referred to CAS, if it broke one of their own rules.
Like you, I don’t have enough information to judge one way or the other on this one, so I’ll offer no view. Don’t be stressed that our reputation will be damaged by the charge. These incidents are so rare at Celtic they are headline news and recalled for decades (literally). This is a good thing.
Will get round to the moves being put on the SFA on other matters shortly, lots to cover this week.
Got your CQN Annual yet? Just over one week until Christmas!
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SOAL
My mind is preoccupied. Hope you had a good one mucker.
Happy birthday SOAL ! Did the family light your birthday cake next to the fire station ? ….just in case ????:)
HT
Masturbating Is Not A Crime
XXX
New song from Billy No’Well……. V funny
Here’s to you Merry Christmas
http://youtu.be/3VGTFMlAXlY
HH
tgbs
Me thinks you have spotted something there mi amigo>}
HH
johann murdoch
Thank you
the glorious balance sheet
22:47 on
16 December, 2014
NatKnow 2225-
Lord Bonomy specifically instructed the SFA to publish the transcripts of the hearings, against normal practice, because he thinks that all Celtic fans are paranoid internet bampots who would see an anti-Celtic conspiracy in the decision of the judicial panel.
This is what he says in the written transcript of the appeal decision:-
“There has inevitably been ill-informed speculation about the reasons for the Disciplinary Tribunal deciding to uphold the complaint and impose a seven-match suspension. Against that background the Appellate Tribunal consider that it would be in the interests of the parties, in the interests of the wider football community, and in the general public interest to publish this decision and the terms of the original Disciplinary Tribunal decision, thus ensuring that any ensuing debate is well-informed. The Appellate Tribunal, therefore, suggest to the SFA that they should exercise their discretion in terms of paragraph 17.5.2 of the Judicial Panel Protocol to disclose both decisions and the reasons therefor.
Iain Bonomy,
Chairman, Judicial Panel Appellate Tribunal,
16 December”
Its worth noting that at the time of writing there had been no speculation at all about the decision of the Appeal Panel as this had not been published. Furthermore the appeal panel actually sat and considered the appeal 2 weeks ago and then had an adjournment which is unprecedented in these cases. A cynic like me would be inclined to think that this smacks of getting their story straight and taking the time to write up their decision in as watertight a fashion as possible.
———————————————————-
Cheers TGBS. It’s good that this has happened. The SFA has little credibility in the eyes of many football fans. Lord Bonomy may well believe that any speculation is ill-informed. No smoke without fire – if the SFA were fully transparent then perhaps there would be no room for such speculation, and perhaps the SFA would have a better reputation.
Stv on salary ……
The Spirit of Arthur Lee
22:57 on
16 December, 2014
HT
Masturbating Is Not A Crime
XXX
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That’s definitely an XXX post!
NatKnow
Bloody i pad
Here’s To You Merry Christmas by Billy No’Well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxNemfdMnOU
Who complained to UEFA ? One of our over keen journalists again…………
Some of the clowns following Celtic need their heads examined. Anyone else notice the SMV graffiti in the loos at CP ?
SOAL
That’s not what the manger of Tesco told me.
Clashcitybhoy @22:51
Are you saying Celtic lack legal expertise at Celtic Park or that they were duped?
Anybody know if this copper has been jailed?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEgMfbegLTg
HAMILTON TIM
Were you at the self-service till at the time?
If as Paul 67 suggests that Celtic can go no further with this decision, what is there to stop Tonev or the Bulgarian FA even Aston Villa from taking it further. Surely they can sue the sfa or logan for defamation of character and get the whole thing brought to a proper court. Pretty sure I read that the cops said Tonev had no case to answer and a proper court surely would not come back with a result like this. Also didn’t Celtic say they would back him all the way.
HH
KTF
UTLR
Morrisey the 23rd
Neither.
But I don’t think it was our legal team who told the press, that we would go to CAS if we didn’t get a satisfactory outcome from SPFL.
We should have kept that card up our sleeves …….Imho.
Wits
Regards Mario’s crime
It would appear that. Black man can refer to another black man as his nigger … Black people can use this word in songs and raps … Black comedians can use the term and others In jokes ( in the same way comediennes can slag off women’s behaviours )
But a black footballer ain’t allowed to say anything like that !!!!
Strange PC world we live in ( and no jokes about getting anyone an iPad for Christmas please folks )
lymmbhoy
magic >}
Been looking for the one he did, a parody of Bob Dylan, the one with the cards, can’t remember it’s name, any clues, can’t find it on utube
HH
Lennybhoy
Apologies will drop an email soon, ma Mrs told me not to use her email account she says I better set my own up, she said we warn the kids not talk to strangers on the Internet, I told her CQN is different, anyway am away to ma kip some journo on Scotlad Tonight has just made me fall off the couch “Ashley has performed a takeover by stealth” so much for not exceeding 10% ownership, cant actually believe they say these things with straight faces
TBJ
Seriously, I never knew that, it’s ok as long as you are black and no a footy player.
What a load of pure pish.
HH
Buzz on social media that toys are out the pram with TRFC and there will be tantrums tomorrow.
Early alarm then …
7am
Couple of things…
SOAL,
Happy Birthday Young Man….
CFC Away Support in Europe,
Seen the state of them 2 hours before they left, what to do?
JAIL the feckers before they leave Scotland…. (It’s the Law FFS…)
Ah, but that wouldn’t look good etc. etc.
Total Pricks
TBJ says Wee Oscar Knox is in heaven with the angels
23:10 on
16 December, 2014
Wits
Regards Mario’s crime
It would appear that. Black man can refer to another black man as his nigger … Black people can use this word in songs and raps … Black comedians can use the term and others In jokes ( in the same way comediennes can slag off women’s behaviours )
But a black footballer ain’t allowed to say anything like that !!!!
Strange PC world we live in ( and no jokes about getting anyone an iPad for Christmas please folks )
———————————————
The word itself cannot be racist. But the use of it can. It all turns on :
1. Context
2. Audience
3. Intent
4. Other factors
I worked with a girl a while back who used the word “fenian” at one point in a conversation and then immediately apologised. When I asked her why, she said she hadn’t meant to use a “bad word”. I pointed out it wasn’t a bad word, but that the reason she thought it was, was because every time she’d heard it, it had been coupled with the word “basturt”.
7am – sounds like a plan ;-)
Aleksandar get out of this hell hole asap…justice my a**e.
We were also told Nimmo Smith was the Bee’s knees.
How did that turn out :O(…
So, Billy Davis is on the front of the record, mash is going to tell the sfa to gtf.
Just another day in sevcoland >}
………………………………………………………………………………
Calton Tongues
Are the weans you mention affiliated to anyone, or are they just weans ?
I obviously have no idea who they are, I have seen a few going to town on the GB, without any knowledge whatsoever, I trust you will know, no agenda, just curious.
HH
PS
The pricks would be both them and the polis then >}
20 year old, Dingwall born and bred, Dad and Mum big Celtic fans, (after Ross County, scores his first top league goals on his 3rd first team start – away to Motherwell
Watch the 2 footed skills in the first goal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oLgMc1cWlQ7
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuXBN-hE4Ok
Embdy recall the Billy no Well song about minty, it was a Bob Dylan with the cards, help please, doing ma nut in huntin for it.
HH
Mighty tim,
Good to see you back on, hope all is well,
Where does this line get drawn?
Can someone just claim that something was said and wreck a players future?
Who knows what is said on the park in the heat of the moment? I know I have comments thrown at me and retaliated when I played.
It’s part of the game.
Anyways, the deflection seems to have worked…club two are in their death throws…let’s not keep our eye off the ball..
Night all.HH
THE EXILED TIM
23:35 on
16 December, 2014
Embdy recall the Billy no Well song about minty, it was a Bob Dylan with the cards, help please, doing ma nut in huntin for it.
HH
———————–
TET – the original Bob Dyl track was Subterranean Homesick Blues.
Not sure if that helps though..!
There are some moments when the mask truely slips.
Tonight Is one of them. It I s a complete embarrsment that we are faced with a weird about turn from celtic which would shame the Hun.
For our host and others to pretend it didn’t happen or whatever is I have to say rather pathetic.
Was tonevs case worth fighting for on its merits or not? One day it was. Now we are told itsnt.
Well what do you believe?
Celtics position is not credible.
I wonder why???
Seems that the disciplinary action raised by Uefa is for Crowd Disturbances and not fireworks
Disciplinary proceedings have been opened following the UEFA Europa League group D match between GNK Dinamo Zagreb and Celtic FC (4-3), played on 11 December in Croatia.
Celtic FC:
Charges: Crowd disturbances – Article 16 (2) (h) of the UEFA Disciplinary Regulations
The case will be dealt with by the UEFA Control, Ethics and Disciplinary Body on 19 February 2015.
Setting off Fireworks is legislated for in Section 16 (2)(c) of their disciplinary code
As per
Match: European Qualifier group H, Italy vs Croatia (1-1), played on 16 November in Milan:
Italy:
Charges: Setting off of fireworks (Article 16 (2) (c) of the UEFA Disciplinary Regulations);
Sanctions: The Italian Football Federation has been fined €13,000.
Seeing as the date of the disciplinary hearing is the 19 February I imagine sanctions will not impact on anyone intending travelling to Milan on 26 February
Legia were as recently as the 2 December 2014 banned from selling tickets to its supporters before it next europa league match in which the club is the visiting team
It is only a matter of time before we are going to be hit with the same sanction because of our boisterous infallible support
Looking forward to hearing the Bulgarian FA’s reaction to this decision.
Not seeing this as a shot at Celtic. In fact, no damage has been done to Celtic.
In fact, it is difficult to conclude that Chelsea have been damaged by Terry, for example.
I don’t know whether Tonev made racist remarks. But neither does anyone else on this blog. Those of us who don’t make a living out of defining ‘burden of proof’ matters – and I presume I am not alone on this count – may have been a bit surprised that he was found guilty.
However, apart from an ill-thought tweet, Logan has really done nothing wrong. Yet he is being vilified by some of our supporters.
There are only 3 explanations for Logan’s decision to complain.
One, he heard Tonev make a racist remark;
Two, he believed he heard Tonev make a racist remark;
Three, he made all this up.
Unless it is the latter, I would suggest that expressions of hatred towards Logan are, at yes, misplaced.
If he believes that he heard Tonev make a racist comment, he has every right to make an issue of it. Punishing him or criticizing him for doing so is just plain wrong.
yes = best