In his Q&A session with the Daily Record yesterday, outgoing SPFL chairman, Ralph Topping touched on the subject of who knew what when, regarding Rangers slide into liquidation saying:
“There wasn’t one single person ever who envisaged this case happening. You tell me who pointed out that this was going to happen – did you?
“The biggest assumption about the set-up in the SPL would be that you would have Rangers and Celtic playing in it in perpetuity – nobody thought that those two bastions of football would ever be involved in anything like this and nobody flagged it up.”
Well, in October 2011 I knew. This CQN article from 27 October 2011 notes in very specific detail Rangers were going to liquidate, a phoenix would be created which wanted direct access to the SPL (the top flight at that time). I got the timing wrong, predicting the phoenix would take place during the season, but to be fair, it later became clear this was Craig Whyte’s plan at the time.
Ralph Topping’s SPL knew too. Rangers alerted them to the situation that very month. The SPL spend November, December and January preparing the ground for Rangers administration and liquidation, a period during which a new TV deal was signed.
This stunning Lisbon canvas signed by Billy McNeill is available for raffle on behalf of the 2017 CQN Open, being held at Aberdour Golf Club TODAY Friday 28 July.
All proceeds go to the Celtic FC Foundation and Walk with Shay. The draw will be made live at the CQN Open this evening. Tickets cost £2, ONLY A FEW HOURS remaining. Enter here on ebay.
Fill your boots!
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29 JULY UPDATE – NEW CQN PODCAST – CELTS FOR CHANGE – OUT NOW – LISTEN BELOW…
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Bada Bing
You say , hand in notice of leaving our association (2 years i think ).
Do you think we would be accepted in any other countrys league setup ?
And who would we approach ?
And crc I know you know paul67 well. But ask yourself, why won’t he call on the board to act? Hey won’t he say anything about the board and res12.
SIN CITY BHOY on 28TH JULY 2017 3:38 PM
‘Let’s talk about clearing out the governing bodies root and branch after we’re through to the group stages.’
###
Yeah right enough.
Wait til the group stages.
Better still, wait til after the group stages.
Just to be on the safe side wait til the league’s won.
And the league cup. Then the Scottish cup.
And then we can start waiting all over again next season.
Rangers EBT fallout explained in SPFL Q&A
Neil Doncaster, Ralph Topping and Rod McKenzie give frank and detailed account as to why the SPFL have no legal grounds to further discipline the Ibrox club.
BYGORDON PARKS
Q: Was the old SPL having no rule for non-payment of taxes negligible?
NEIL DONCASTER: “Arguably, the non-payment of millions of pounds of taxes could be construed as bringing the game into disrepute and that is an area reserved for the Scottish FA.
“It’s not an area which the SPL as was – or the SPFL as is now – is allowed to get into. If you look at the period from 1999 and the next decade or so, neither UEFA nor other leagues across Europe had rules to cover this sort of thing.
“Rules concerning financial fair play and non-payment of tax are fairly recent innovations across European football.”
RALPH TOPPING: “There wasn’t one single person ever who envisaged this case happening. You tell me who pointed out that this was going to happen – did you?
“The biggest assumption about the set-up in the SPL would be that you would have Rangers and Celtic playing in it in perpetuity – nobody thought that those two bastions of football would ever be involved in anything like this and nobody flagged it up.
“Whether that was negligible is a legitimate area for the commission to look at.”
Q: Why was it deemed there was no sporting advantage from improper registrations?
ROD McKENZIE: “There are a number of things which are incorrect in that proposition. Firstly, the payments were not made to players, they were made into a trust and then the sub-trust lent the money to the families of the players, which is part of the problem.
“The Supreme Court has now ruled that, while there was no payment to those players, they should be treated as remuneration to players. Nobody in football understood that one of its clubs was going to use a tax scheme like this for players.
“It’s sometimes suggested that, somehow, the SPL or the SFA got notice of this: they didn’t. There is certainly reference in Rangers’ accounts to them using EBTs – EBTs were widely used industry – but nothing was said to indicate they were being used for players.
“The reason Rangers didn’t lodge the documentation with the SPL – and Lord Nimmo Smith helped us establish this – was that they didn’t believe they had to because they weren’t making those payments to the players and, therefore, they didn’t believe they were under obligation under the rules to lodge those documents.
“It had nothing to do with disclosure to HMRC because the SPL and the SFA were not in the business of disclosing documents to HMRC.
“The reason Rangers did not give that documentation to the SFA and the SPL was not to hide it from the tax authorities.”
Q: But the side letters were performance-related trust payments?
ROD McKENZIE: “All I can say is that the side letters did not relate to payments to the players – they related to payments to the trusts. Rangers – incorrectly, in Lord Nimmo Smith’s decision – took the view they did not need to file them with the SPL because they weren’t about payments to players.
“And they had advice about this, so they said. They were still in breach of the rules and were punished accordingly by the commission but they said – and I’m not here to apologise for them – that there was no competitive advantage gained by not filing the papers.”
Q: Can Scottish football move forward?
RALPH TOPPING: “There are some legitimate areas that we could explore with supporters and with clubs with an eye on improvement, in an attempt to cauterise the wound if you like, the sore. Whether we are successful in that is not up to me to determine. The only question I have ever asked when I have been sat around the boardroom table is ‘what is the right thing to do guys?’ If people want to point the finger and say ‘you got it wrong’ then fine.”
Q: Do you think the punishment fitted the crime?
RALPH TOPPING: “If they want to examine me on that issue I am happy to put myself forward on it as will board members. Who sits on the review body? Lawyers have had a disproportionate interest in the subject, they still have. Getting the balance right on that review body in terms of quantity of people, background of the individuals involved, and think about how people in Scotland will view them. We need to work with the SFA on that. There is a lot of good people along at the SFA. Everybody in Scottish football should have their opportunity to have their say and the review body report on it.”
Q: Are you happy you personally couldn’t have done any more?
RALPH TOPPING: “I am satisfied we have gone through the legal process and we have done the responsible thing in terms of getting wiser minds than I’ve got to look at it from a legal perspective. We have taken that advice and we have acted on it. People can be critical all they want, but we haven’t set out in anything other than in a sincere fashion to try and do the right thing.”
Q: Was the Rangers EBT situation morally wrong?
RALPH TOPPING: “Some will inevitably have that view. However, we were looking at the rules as were. That is the only thing left to a body.”
Q: Have you had any feedback from Celtic?
RALPH TOPPING: ”We’ve had a number of people expressing a viewpoint. There were no dissenting voices around the board table.”
ROD McKENZIE: “It would be fair to observe that Celtic are one of the clubs who, since the Supreme Court decision, has called for a review. They did not contribute to the board meeting because no Celtic person stood for election for the board.”
Q: Looking forward, under these rules if it’s shown a club hasn’t paid taxes during a period when they won a title or a trophy, is title stripping a sanction that could now be applied?
RALPH TOPPING: ”I wouldn’t like to prejudge matters – but, yes, that is now available.”
ROD McKENZIE: ”The rule works so that clubs must tell us within two days if they’ve defaulted on a tax payment. If that happens they are automatically barred from registering players over the age of 21.
“If the club does go into default, and doesn’t tell us within two days and also with-holds information from HMRC and we find out, then that is a breach of the rules.
“And there are a wide range of penalties for that…including points deductions, which happened to Livingston who didn’t tell us they had defaulted on their tax.
“In a situation where a club wins a league, where they hadn’t told us about a tax default and they continued to default in their obligations, then one of the possible sanctions which could be imposed would be removal of the title.”
Q: Rules you now have in place can prevent the situation happening again?
NEIL DONCASTER: “We certainly hope so. Again, part of this independent review will be if there are further suggestions to further tighten the rules then we should he absolutely open to them.”
RALPH TOPPING: “There may be areas that football would want to look at – fit and proper person might come into that category. It’s an area where other leagues have found it difficult to get the perfect definition and perfect rules to apply.”
Q: Can Scottish football really move on when some fans will always carry baggage?
NEIL DONCASTER: “That’s why transparency and openness are the themes. There is so much misunderstanding about everything that has happened involving Rangers over the past six years. We absolutely welcome dialogue with clubs and supporter groups. We welcome their questions. We will be as open as we can.”
Q: If there was another insolvency event at Ibrox would that be considered as a first or second offence?
ROD McKENZIE: “Second. As it stands. There is a time period between insolvency events which I think is five years. So it might not now be 25 points. I think it is a five-year period between, and if you have a further insolvency event within the five year period then you get a further 25 point deduction. At Rangers in 2011 was the administration but they went into liquidation in 2012. We are just still within the five year period.”
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The Hoops CEO was busy celebrating the club’s latest league championship success that increases their current World record run of consecutive titles to 136 in a row when he was asked about the possible action on the financial and administrative malfeasance that occured at Iborcs last century,
“You can’t rush these things,our powder is arid and will remain so until everyone with a memory of these events is dead and no-one’s alive to ask us to do the right thing.
Oh,there’s a new top out,only £££s…or more £££s if you’re one of our elite fans.”
as the great man once said
‘Now it’s all or nothing
‘Cause you say you’ll follow through
You follow me, and I, I, I follow you’
ERNIE LYNCH on 28TH JULY 2017 3:45 PM
Oh gee, the Celtic brainstrust troll strikes again.
Over the years your incessant negativity, combined with insults about anything concerning Celtic and the the support, while not once to my knowledge posting anything supportive about team gives me a stauner over your latest laser insightful gem.
Go back to politics, at least that gives us entertainment.
No matter what happens to Sevco, probably nothing,I will still buy my season ticket,and I just wish this strippin titles,thing just slips away,it’s pretty boring,same same old, issues,on here, supporters,not going back to support , Celtic,you know what,for God sake just do that ,and gie us peace,
FFS no the cheating’ girlfriend story again, we get Neg yer bird two timed ye let it go man for everybody’s sake…
Greetings from Barcelona.
I have no idea who does the PR role at the SPFL but dear Lord God almighty who on earth authorised Ralph Topping and Rod McKenzie to come out with these most recent statements.
At a recent meeting at Celtic Park re Res 12, I was told that the SFA were specifically asked: “are you watching what is being said in the Whyte trial?” – this was a specific reference to why the EBT scheme was undertaking (to sign players Rangers could not otherwise afford), the dates upon which demands were made with regard to overdue payables in the wee tax case, and the clear financial position that RFC PLC was a “basket case” which was doomed.
Stop and consider this for a moment. Topping says that no one knew that Rangers were for liquidation, yet we have rules and regulations which, by 2010/2011, were designed to ensure that clubs did not go bust out of the blue leaving unpaid “football debts”, taxes and so on.
These latest admissions and statements all smack of avoiding blame for the debacle and being asleep at the wheel, yet in trying to avoid blame they admit that the football rules and their administration and scrutiny in Scotland was defective and defunct.
As each explanation comes forth about who knew what when, that no one looked at the EBT payments because they were not to players and so that didn’t constitute a breach of the rules, that LNS dealt with the wee tax case because the same players were mentioned, etc etc the credibility, if any, of the people involved, becomes thinner and thinner in relation to these matters.
For Celtic PLC, the stage is now set after years of having to wait and see what transpired in courts of law where Celtic were not involved in the court processes and had no control over the evidence referred to or the issues under discussion and legal scrutiny.
That no longer applies, and Celtic PLC, as a company which is beholden and answerable to its shareholders, as the representative vehicle of the clubs supporters within the SFA and SPFL, must ask questions about whether these explanations are credible, reliable, acceptable and honourable.
If the logical and reasonable answerable to any of these questions is no then Celtic should take the organisations and people concerned to task within the review process — as should every other club bar perhaps the new club.
Even if the answers to these questions are in the negative, then it would appear that there is a need for root and branch reform of the SPFL and the SFA in terms of their rules, the people that run the game and the procedures they adopt.
I have had it acknowledged that there are certain football fans who know every adminicle of evidence in relation to the issues under discussion and who can point to correspondence and statements, within and on, specific dates which prove and disprove certain stated facts and circumstances as spouted by others.
Celtic know this. Some of the detail has been pointed out to them and they are aware of it.
They should use significant time, effort and resources to go through all the necessary and available documentation because it casts great doubt on what the football authority figures are saying and many many people know this.
In the absence of there being a professionally prepared challenge to some of the rubbish we have seen in the papers over the last few days then football in Scotland is finished and that is bad for the business of Celtic PLC.
The credibility of the SPFL is teetering on the brink here and not because of the actions of anyone outwith the SPFL itself. The more we are given the “official” line of events the more difficult it is to have any faith in the ability and integrity of the football people involved.
Off for a pint down the Ramblas in my Lisbon Anniversary shirt from the New Zealand/ Auckland CSC which was sent to me by Mike Maher.
Celtic have a duty to guys like Mike who have followed the club, and the game in Scotland, as both man and boy, both at home and from thousands of miles away.
You let guys like that down at your peril cause you will never be forgiven if you do.
Neil Doncaster
We welcome their questions. “We will be as open as we can”.???
BRTH
if you are on the Ramblas
nip in here to cool off
http://www.rocambolesc.com/heladerias
The UEFA Control, Ethics and Disciplinary Body (CEDB) has announced the following decision:
Match: UEFA Champions League second qualifying round second leg match between Celtic FC and Linfield FC (4-0), played on 19 July in Scotland.
Charges against Celtic FC:
• Illicit banner – Art. 16 (2) of the UEFA Disciplinary Regulations
• Kit infringement – Art. 62 (3) of UEFA Kit Regulations
• Stairways blocked – Art. 38 of UEFA Safety & Security Regulations
Decision: The CEDB has decided to fine Celtic FC €23,000. Proceedings with regards to the kit infringement offence by the Scottish club have been closed.
Punters are piling their cash on Rangers to win the 2017/18 Scottish Premiership title at the bookmakers.
Celtic may have finished 39 points ahead of the Ibrox side last season, but football fans are backing Pedro Caixinha ‘s side to spring a surprise next season.
Rangers, who are a best priced 7/1 to win the league, are proving popular according to Oddschecker with over 44 per cent of bets in the winners market being placed on them to lift the league title. One punter has placed a £400 bet on the Gers celebrating at the end of the season.
Celtic are available at 1/9 and 36 per cent of punters are back Brendan Rodgers’ side at those short odds.
One Hibs fans is feeling confident having backed his side to win the league under Neil Lennon at 250/1. That tenner will go a long way if that comes in.
Oddschecker spokesman, Sam Eaton “The SPL is following the usual trend of betting when there’s a short price favourite, the more casual punters are going to be put off by the small returns when backing Celtic for the title. However, the bigger stakes will always follow the favourite, as high-rollers believe it’s a cracking investment.”
Folks
Im pretty confident that Celtic cannot be in the move on camp because, unless some QC can come up with a sound acceptable argument iro UEFA licence in 2011 to show it was honestly granted and kept, if Regan’s head is not on a plate by the AGM, PL’s will be, and I cannot see that happening.
Finally got feedback from Celtic tv.
Usually they send a bog standard response.
Wrote to JP and after previously being ignored he responded and forwarded my email to tv dept.
Not terribly hopeful that the service will improve as their response was sorry but no solution offered.
Those defending them and blaming subscribers own connection for the Linfield and Rosenberg debacle should realize how wrong they were as Celtic tv have admitted it is their problem.
Still find it incredible that they did not have the facilities in place when they know how many people subscribe .
Platitudes and sorry does not cut it and shows a company who give not a fig for customer service.
An emotionally attached customer base has our custodians basking in arrogance.
Sin City Bhoy,I agree, people like Ernie Lynch,it’s there way or no way,he like others,keep on and on, while boring the rest of us to tears,him and others who advocate,of not renewing ,etc,just do it and gies us peace,
TIMBHOY1 some people dont want to lie down like yourself so you think like mr duffy move on, you are entitled to your opinion but so are others
STARRY PLOUGH on 28TH JULY 2017 10:11 AM
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Ordered the EP chief.
Have a wee turntable sitting there still in the box.
Gonna be the first vinyl played on it.
Buzzing.
Thanks a million for your help.
:)
HH.
Sin City Bhoy/ Timbhoy 1.
I couldn’t disagree more.
How boring the blog would be if we all had the same opinions.
The diversity of opinions is what keeps me reading the blog.
Hail Hail.
SIN CITY BHOY on 28TH JULY 2017 3:38 PM
Great post.
I’m all in favour of prompt and decisive action against the SFA/SPFL
But the focus on this and the GB/Linfield fiasco has robbed the club of the feelgood factor we should have taken into the Rosenborg game.
The ability to scroll past or just simply disagree with a post/poster is there,why not employ it rather than requesting some contributors cease and desist?
JNP
Absolutely blogs are all about opinions – however some only come to life on non football matters (ie on the pitch)
Dallas pointed out a while back that we should be doing more to highlight this is not a Celtic v Rangers thing. Too many fans of other flubs are reading the tabloids and believing this.
A Falkirk fan today, and he is a guy who does go to Falkirk games, said see that thing the Celtic fans are going on about stripping the titles. I pointed out it was fans of all clubs, well I support Falkirk and its not in my name he said. My post will be deleted if I give my full response. Let’s just say I didn’t wish him a nice weekend.
Hail Hail.
SCULLYBHOY
I do not believe the league is the foregone conclusion most Celtic fans assume.
The footballing authorities with their recent pronouncements on cheating on behalf of one team have sent a well timed message to their brethren with whistles.
I expect a season of honest mistakes to surpass the last one.
On a level playing field in Europe the huns were exposed but with the help of the cheats in black this will not happen in the cheating environment of the spl.
They will be aided by cheats with whistles in every game and i expect their competition will be disadvantaged by mibs.
The mssm will also play their part in this charade ignoring every transgression by huns and their mibs and complaining about any perceived wrong against them.
I fear complacency will be dangerous.
16 ROADS – CELTIC ÜBER ALLES…
Yer welcome Amigo, it was a great session and many great Tims sang in that choir, I haven’t even got a copy myself now, it was one of those ones that got gave away to Tims in greater need:))
HH
Gene 4.36.
I wasn’t reading in real time the other night but when I finally got round to it, I loved your Brendan for Stoke post.
That is the thing about social media any rumour spreads like wildfire.
Hail Hail
Doncaster as good as said….”We welcome the chase”…….
MARSPAPA on 28TH JULY 2017 3:44 PM
Bada Bing
You say , hand in notice of leaving our association (2 years i think ).
Do you think we would be accepted in any other countrys league setup ?
And who would we approach ?
I think we would be a welcome addition to any league, why don’t we call their bluff and give them notice? HH
Who explained the alleged meaning of the banners to the UEFA observer?
Lot of Celtic fans morphing into Old Firm fans.
They don’t want to be old Firm fans, but they don’t have a choice in the matter.
The Board have seen to that.
GLENDALYSTONSILS on 28TH JULY 2017 4:34 PM
‘I’m all in favour of prompt and decisive action against the SFA/SPFL’
####
Such as?
BRT & H
When you say “Celtic know this.” who do you mean by ` Celtic` ? Pl ? DD ? JPT ?
JJ
Auldheid. Or they could just ignore it all……….which seems to be the modus operandi.
Celtic will say nothing. I was going to say do nothing but colluding isn’t doing nothing.
CELTICROLLERCOASTER SUPPORTING @WALKWITHSHAY on 28TH JULY 2017 3:22 PM
For me, the resignation by PL from the SPFL board prior to their announcement of “Nothing to see here, time to move on” is strange.
Why not wait until after the announcement and resign declaring that you can no longer work on a board which is so heavily conflicted and unable to show that they have Scottish football’s interest first and foremost?
Not getting this logic. I hope that there is a strategy behind this yet to unfold, and that we are simply not intertwined with the last 5 years of deceit. Time will tell!.
——————————–
I think you’ll find he moved on to the SFA Professional Gaming Board, rather than just left the SPFL Board.
Guess who the SPFL have to appeal to if a ruling doesn’t go the way they want it to.
Just saying.
Have we signed anyone yet, FFS
KINGLuBO
ernie lynch said :
They don’t want to be old Firm fans, but they don’t have a choice in the matter.
I believe I am not an Old firm fan. Can you show me why i am wrong so to think?
JJ
Fred
Ogilvie, Dallas and McGivern of Linfield would be my guess.