Aberdeen v Celtic, Live updates
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GG,
Many thanks for that info. Trouble is I don’t know my Java Script from my elbow.
Anyhoo, when I eventually got back on, I forgot to thank our team for their brilliant performance today. I would have settled for 1-0 beforehand. 4-0 was a real bonus.
thank you to Bateenbhoy for forwarding my brawest three…
smiley lost souls are counted in East Kilbride thing
Braw
GFTB 😀👍
As I type this while watching Stepmom, the kids start singing “This land is your land” Brill!!
😂😂😂😂😂😂
While I’m on, the wife wants me to take her to see the Vatican / Pope next year and also visit Lourdes….. I can arrange the Visit to the Vatican, but, does anyone have any experience of visiting Lourdes.
Hotel, travel, ect, mobility/walking will be a problem so any advice would be welcome TIA.
Ps….. Two observations today
1. Great to see Rogic get 90 mins under his belt (I wouldn’t have started him)
2. Sinclair sitting on the bench I could’ve gret for him.
I thought he above anyone else might have got on. So sad to see, imo I feel he’s been poorly treated (then again Lenny hasn’t got much wrong) . Hope he gets a game against St Mirren.
Sundays just get beautifuller n beautifuller😂
That was fun today and football as it should be played on the park under the rules.
Unfortunately what takes place off the park can have an influence and the reaction to The Boards response to a new resolution that asks the matter be taken away from the SFA and handed to UEFA or police has been open to lots of interpretations , that the issue is dead, that there will be no investigation etc etc.
The following should add some clarity as to where matters stand courtesy of BRTH.
The position is really very simply summarised as follows;
1. Resolution 12 always sought to put the entire matter of the licence grant and the monitoring of the licensing process into the hands of UEFA for investigation and whatever action was then deemed necessary.
2. Celtic resisted the notion on the basis that they were already in contact with the SFA in connection with the same subject matter. They agreed the merits were worth investigating and that there should be some form of enquiry which provided answers to some fundamental question.
3. At the same time Peter Lawwell understandably also stressed that Celtic had a duty to Scottish Football and Scottish Club which merited giving the SFA, as opposed to UEFA, the chance to investigate and provide answers.
4. For those reasons we went along with the approach to the SFA.
5. However, at the same time we sought independent legal advice on documentation and information which was coming our way. We shared that with Celtic who, for legal and political reasons, could not act on that information especially while there were other legal proceedings pending – especially criminal proceedings.
6. Accordingly, we as shareholders and part owners of a member club wrote separately to both UEFA and the SFA in relation to procedures and information which gave us concern.
7. Both the SFA and UEFA were reluctant to deal with anyone other than the member club but both entered into correspondence to a limited extent with the SFA saying that they would co-operate with and respond to an UEFA instigated enquiry, and UEFA saying that they could only take matters forward on a formal basis if the issues raised were referred to them by the SFA or by a member club. At that stage they invited Celtic to make a formal referral. Celtic, however, felt they could not do so because they had already referred the matter to the SFA who were still working on it.
8. It should be noted that at no time did Celtic, the SFA or UEFA come back to us and said that our information was wrong or that there was nothing to explore or investigate. THAT REMAINS THE POSITION TO THIS DAY.
9. Following upon the conclusion of the Big Tax Case in the Supreme Court and the criminal trial of Craig Whyte, some, but not necessarily all, of the information which we had been discussing for the previous four years became matters of public record.
10. At the conclusion of the trial Stewart Reagan commented that it would appear that the SFA had been misled in relation to material aspects of the licensing process as we had originally alleged.
11. Celtic and the SPFL both called for an open enquiry into the events of 1999 – 2012 – basically the years covered by the big tax case and the wee tax case and this would have covered football compliance issues including the licensing processes during those years.
12. The SFA rejected that call and instead chose to instigate their own inquiry into the licensing applications and procedures of 2011/2012 and via Tony McGlennan they wrote to every club in Scotland to explain that such an inquiry was being conducted.
13. The conclusion of that inquiry was that disciplinary proceedings should be brought against RFC alleging breaches of both UEFA and SFA rules in connection with the 2011/2012 licensing process.
14. Those charges were tabled and ordered to be heard by an independent judicial panel.
15. RFC (the current club) took a preliminary objection to those charges at a hearing of the Independent Judicial Panel and argued that the SFA and any judicial panel did not have the legal jurisdiction or capacity to consider and determine those charges and argued that any such charges should be remitted to the Court of Arbitration for sport.
16. The Judicial Panel upheld that argument and remitted the case back to the SFA with the recommendation that they rethink the process and remit the matters concerned to CAS. This was June 2018 – some 16 months ago.
17. Since then, we as shareholders have repeatedly asked the current SFA compliance officer for clarification as to when these matters will be referred to CAS. Originally, we were assured by Michael Nicholson that the SFA were adamant that the charges were going to CAS but after months of inactivity the current CEO of the SFA changed that and advised that a decision about WHETHER OR NOT the charges would be sent to CAS would be made before Christmas 2019.
18. Celtic have since advised us that no other club in Scotland has any appetite for any of this and that they are simply not interested.
19. However, the Judicial Panel ruling means that, at least in relation to these issues, we have a situation where there has been a judicial ruling that the SFA are not fit to, and are not legally capable of, conducting proceedings designed to ensure that either SFA or UEFA rules were complied with. In other words the entire SFA compliance function in this process is at an end.
20. This has been determined without any reference to UEFA who appointed the SFA as the competent Licensing Authority for Scotland only to find that the SFA cannot enforce UEFA rules nor conduct any proceedings in relation to alleged breaches of UEFA rules.
21. There is a clear reluctance on the part of the SFA to remit this issue to CAS despite the fact that the SFA themselves decided to bring disciplinary charges after enquiry. If the SFA chose to do nothing then that will be a real slap in the face to UEFA but will be a complete abrogation of the function of a football and licensing authority.
22. At the outset of Resolution 12, Celtic asked us and everyone else to have faith in the SFA and their processes. That faith has been misguided. At the same time, Celtic, as a member club of UEFA were previously invited to formally refer the matter to UEFA but declined to do so and instead opted to allow the SFA to proceed with its process.
23. That process has now been deemed to be incompetent with no sign of the SFA following the ruling from the judicial panel.
24. In the circumstances, Celtic should refer the matter to UEFA in line with the original resolution in order to protect the integrity of the licensing process in Scotland, to protect UEFA and its rules, and to effectively follow through on the judicial process that the club, the SFA and, by tacit consent and open invitation, UEFA said was necessary.
It can also be added that at the last AGM the following points were made with a request for answers that have never been given.
Fourteen months after instigating an investigation the SFA are assuring Celtic shareholders via the club that something, but we don’t know what, will be referred to CAS but we don’t know why nor do we know when.
(A nod to Brendan for The League Cup final: The grass at Hampden will be longer than the grass at Tynecastle)
The assurances that something unclear will happen comes four months after that CAS referral decision was made and there still has been no referral.
It has been five months since June when the shareholders lawyer (at a cost of £2.5k on top of earlier bills amounting to £7.5k) put a series of questions along with supporting evidence to the SFA copied to Celtic to which no answers have as yet been given.
So the questions I have for The Celtic Board are:
1. Are Celtic actually bound by the SFA JPDT Decision to refer something to CAS and if so on what basis given that Andrea Traverso Head of UEFA Club Licensing in his letter of 8th June to Celtic shareholders said and I quote.
“It is not the general policy of UEFA to write directly to lawyers representing unidentified clients and if this is a matter a member club of the Scottish Football Association ( IE CELTIC ) wishes to take up with UEFA then the club should do so directly.”
Further: can it be explained to shareholders here in the room and at large why Celtic are not asking UEFA CFCB to investigate given:
1. Fundamentally it is a breach of UEFA rules that is under investigation, which is a job for UEFA – and what Res12 requested.
And
2. UEFA’s recent statement of 12 November (and again I quote)
“Should new information suggest that previously concluded cases have been abused, those cases may be capable of being re-opened as determined on a case-by-case basis.”
In summary:
• Why have Celtic from the beginning chosen to eschew direct UEFA involvement?
• Why are they not now taking the new information into account in respect of that choice and reviewing it?
• Given the time it has taken the SFA to decide that CAS should be involved (for unclear reasons) are Celtic willing to wait an undetermined period until the SFA are able to progress the matter or will it be all over by ST Renewal time next April?
• Would it be possible for shareholders representatives to meet the SFA Compliance Officer and CEO before Christmas to ascertain progress, to be able to provide assurances based on clarity to those they represent?
• Can we have answers to those questions confirmed in writing please to send to signatories of Resolution 12?
No answers have been received and there is nothing in Celtic’s response to the latest resolution to involve UEFA or police that answers the above questions.
There can only be two conclusions based on the foregoing, either Celtic are protecting the SFA by doing nothing for a year or are grossly negligent in their responsibility to address shareholders concerns.
So how is it in the Companies interest to rely on a process that is clearly inappropriate to address the matter in hand?
Marspapa 9.14pm
Does Pope Francis know he might be meeting you :-)
Watching the highlights again some of our fitba today was immense, am not one for all the tactic stuff but some of the movement from our bhoys in the first half was exceptional… I would prefer the unbiased computer to send us to Pittidrie, Ibrox, Tynecastle after every Euro Sunday … thankfully the one game I didn’t see any of was the Tony Maccaroni … but I think Neil is learning week in week out… he is perfect for Celtic (in my opinion :-)
Marspapa
I don’t have my phone with me at the minute
I will drop you a note on Lourdes shortly
Laura, has done 4 trips with HCPT, will get info from her
Auldheid 9.14pm
2 questions
1. Where do you think this will end ?
2. If the SFA / Rangers / Sevco can flout the laws of the land (company law as well as non payment of income tax & NI which is actually breaking the law) what can Celtic do ?
NORRIEM , thanks :))
POTY
CANAMALAR
AULDHEID
BRTH
I know there are others who were / are instrumental on carrying the fight , my grateful thanks to you all
dont know how many times i’ve lost faith in you guys(Oh me of little faith) ….for you to have stuck it out all these years is something i nor the board could have ever imagined…..
Celts for change indeed….
good night and God Bless
No Celts for change :-)
Enjoy these terrific times
One day it might all change, be careful what you wish for
Neil Lennon CSC
Fellow Celts good night and god bless bring on the Mirren of Paisley :-)
You have to say, this is a tremendous Celtic team. We should not get carried away with comparisons but they are damned good. Frimpong has come from nowhere and looks a huge talent but also a great personality. Jullien is a unit and Ajer after a wee wobble now looks better than ever. Fraser Forster has been a brilliant signing. Boli is steady, i think he can offer more going forward and gives the ball way too often but he has come good. Brown is timeless and McGregor does so much for the team, a real water carrier. Elyounoussi and Forrest have much to offer. Rogic is getting fitter and is offering more, he looks hungry. Christie continues to astonish. Last but not least, Edouard is a talent of epic proportions.
Neil Lennon is doing a brilliant job and the Board called his appointment spot on.
Lets keep going.
GFTB on 27TH OCTOBER 2019 9:26 PM
Auldheid 9.14pm
2 questions
1. Where do you think this will end ?
2. If the SFA / Rangers / Sevco can flout the laws of the land (company law as well as non payment of income tax & NI which is actually breaking the law) what can Celtic do ?
========================
They can get it confirmed that this is the case. As it stands no one is prepared to do that, hiding behind football law.
After that its up to the law.
smiley I fought the law and the law won thing
Braw
big shout out to the 4 minding the door ….the right people have your backs
hail hail
Braw
Marspapa. If possible it is often preferable to go to Lourdes with a Diocesan Pilgrimage and have medical, nursing and other support. If you are going on your own then perhaps the use of a Pilgrimage Travel agency like Tangney Tours is a more suitable way to go. You can get information on Tangney Tours website about pilgrimages that they are running next year. They would also ensure that you would be provided with a wheel chair if you notified them in advance.
It is possible to get a hotel on the level though those nearest the Domaine are usually the dearest. Others on the level are manageable with a wheel car for anyone one who requires one for distance. But a good travel agent would help out here. A diocesan pilgrimage would certain see to the provision of anything required to aid easier movement.
If you wish contact Paul for my email address so that I might be able to help. I have loads of experience as I have been to Lourdes around 70 times and served on International Commissions there.
Cal Mac is a star – no wonder the EPL are taking notice.
SPFL Highlights from Today
Enjoy
https://youtu.be/nJRnBhaPqb8
GFTB- How you doing,.? First half was exceptional, games are traditionally tough after a European game, fantastic performance today
Looking forward to Paul67’s take on the Res 12 Debacle. Should be interesting! por cierto.
All that today, without Christie, hell, we’re good! por cierto.
AULDHEID @ BRHT @ 9:15
Congratulations on a superb summary. The Celtic support as a whole owes you and your cohorts a heartfelt vote of thanks. I wish more of them knew about it. We should address our minds as to the most cost efficient method of getting the word out.
IniquitousIV
been a braw day …hope abidy got home safe …
a wee song …Lochee man and as green as green could be..enjoy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io-n-WIcj_M
Braw
Gooooood morning CQN from a delighted Garngad, oh and it’s dark, cold and dry.
What a performance yesterday. Keep it up Bhoys, we have another really busy period coming up.
Now we have 5 home league games out of the next 6.
Let’s see how Sevco cope with 5away fixtures out of there next 6 league games.
Young Frimpong plays football with a smile and looks as if he is having a ball.👍
Enjoy yersell Young yin.
HH
D. :)
There is meant to be their.😂
D. :)
Please share tonight’s article folks – and more imporantly; please vote on the poll at the bottom. HH.
https://thecelticblog.com/2019/10/blogs/celtic-shareholders-and-the-board-are-set-to-go-head-to-head-over-resolution-12/
This is an utter scandal.
From @jeanetteFindlay
@Auldheid @videocelts You are a member of the CT so you know exactly what our position is. As you know we helped you get the original resolution on to the AGM agenda. Your colleagues didn’t have the courtesy to tell us they had cut a deal with Celtic to withdraw before they stood up and did it. 1/2
@Auldheid @videocelts We told you it was a mistake – you argued for years that it wasn’t a mistake and you had it all covered. You weren’t all that bothered about what we thought until the realisation that Celtic had played you finally hit home. 2/3
@Auldheid @videocelts Now you are positioning this as being our responsibility? Well here is the thing – we are a democratic organisation and when the majority of our members inform us the they want us to devote our limited resources to pushing this issue and when they are willing to put their own 3/4
@Auldheid @videocelts time and energy into doing the necessary work instead of sitting at home issuing instructions for others to carry out then we will prioritise this issue. For the avoidance of doubt this is my tweet and not the Trust’s. 4/4
Ask yourself this question.
Why else would Celtic want to keep this with the corrupt SFA?
Wakes up people ffs
Goooood Morning CQN
Here’s one – who is the President of FtSFA ?
How come, what club does he now represent ?
Who represented the SPL (now SPFL) when the 5 way agreement was done ???
Oh dear, see how Res12, and progress with FtSFA may be stalled
My view – corrupt to its core
From hen1rik
I’m going to read that out loud.
Celtic do not want any investigation outside Scottish Football and instead trust the SFA.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Wake up FFS our club have been complicit since 2012 it’s not the club we all thought it was. https://twitter.com/Auldheid/status/1188578612552884236
IniquitousIV on 27th October 2019 11:54 pm
AULDHEID @ BRHT @ 9:15
Congratulations on a superb summary. The Celtic support as a whole owes you and your cohorts a heartfelt vote of thanks. I wish more of them knew about it. We should address our minds as to the most cost efficient method of getting the word out.
IniquitousIV
======================
BRTH’s work plus the add on from 2018 AGM.
Have passed on your e mail, many thanks.
henrik1967 on 28th October 2019 7:14 am
I think what was a call for support was misunderstood. Best resolved off line.
Good morning, friends, from a gorgeous, clear skied but cold and frosty East Kilbride.
There are much more important issues being discussed on this page and elsewhere but please remember that you have all day today, well until 10pm, to vote on your 3 best players from yesterdays hammering of Aberdeen. Join the 50+ that have already voted by dropping an email to cqnpoty@gmail.com . Really pleased to see a few new ‘first time voters’, both posters and lurkers, so everone is welcome.
At the moment voting is pretty tight. 4 players are receiving the bulk of the votes but another 7 have also received at least 1 vote.
Follow the advice of Fr Ted’s housekeeper, Mrs Doyle, – Go wan, go wan, go wan…. ;-)
cqnpoty@gmail.com
The excellent summaries we have been given about activities around Res. 12 add to the growing realisation that our club is either frightened by, intimidated by or are actively obstructing the furtherance of investigations around the issues surrounding Res. 12.
That said- the suggestion of “blaming the requisitioners” for naivety, as evidenced by Jeanette Findlay’s tweet, is neither helpful nor fair. It is, in fact, the mirror image of Tony Donnelly’s charge, on these pages of CQN, many years ago, and I don’t think Jeanette Findlay, whose work I admire, and Tony Donnelly were coming from the same side of the argument.
It is not a great position in any negotiation to go in with complete mistrust and opposition to a settlement with the other side. A healthy scepticism- yes, but cynicism and complete mistrust- no. You have to hold out hope that the “other side” (a sad phrase to use for the relationship between Celtic plc and the fans), are prepared to see your point of view and argument. If you don’t trust them at all, why enter negotiations in the first place? Just to point score?
I am not impressed, either, by calls to “Wake up! FFS!” to posters on here, many of whom have the same suspicion, though maybe less certainty, about the obstruction of the Board towards the requisitioners. For someone who arrived at a position of mistrust earlier than their fellow fans, to call them out for being late to the party is just point scoring and divisive.
We are going to need more unity than that to see this forward.
For the record, my admiration for all of the requisitioners has not been diminished at all by this outcome. They are not the ones who betrayed the spirit of the Resolution; they are blameless.
I admire the work of the Celtic Trust too and Jeanette Findlay, in particular, in defending fans. They too are blameless for this outcome. It may be a Celtic trait to indulge in internal Civil War, rather than keep the focus on our timeless enemies but I won’t buy into that.
The requisitioners have ownership of this movement. It was done in the name of shareholders (and sadly I am not one of them) and they deserve the respect to take it forward in the name of the people who put their trust in them, if they still have that trust. I hope that the wider members of the Celtic Trust (who own shares) will see it that way too.
Work calls- will catch replies later
SFTB
What specifically do the requisitioners hope to achieve ?
What would they consider to be the end game ?
ie the point at which they can say……. : ” Justice has been done ” , therefore we can stop harassing the Board over this issue and take joy in the current successes we are enjoying
on the FOOTBALL field.
And what would be the social implications of such a ” victory ” if they were to achieve same ?
I know I slated Elyounoussi for his Lazio display but yesterday was much more like it.
We have so many options at LM. I would love to see Shved get some minutes.
Word from a wee mole suggests that dark motives can indeed be ascribed to the potential contravention of human rights.
It seems that SFA dirty dealings may stretch as far as collusion with foreign security services in ‘extraordinary rendition’.
Edward Snowdon eat yer heart out!! You read it here first!
http://alturl.com/88fzw
Hail Hail
Matt
Marspappa
Hope all is well Bud.
The nearest airport to Lourdes is Tarbes, but it’s a bit of a hassle to get to as so few airlines fly there. If you’re including Rome in the same trip then check out if Alitalia flies from Rome to Tarbes or Pau.
We hit the central Pyrenees for our climbing trip each year and often fly into Toulouse from Embra, leaving about 2.5 hours drive to Lourdes on good motorway. It’s a good route and pretty low cost. And hiring a car means you’re not tied to local (expensive) accommodation, and you can get around and see some of the greatest countryside on the planet. NB Toulouse itself is a good town to spend a day or two getting around.
If you’re a church-goer, sound out the local parish priest as many run an annual trip. St Brides in EK for instance have a Lourdes group and I think run a trip each year. It won’t be as cheap as organising it yourself, but it’ll take away the hassle.
Although I’ve been to Lourdes itself a few times, it’s as a tourist not a pilgrim, and generally it’s a stop off for toothpick and water on the way up to the mountains. It’s a nice wee town somewhat overrun by the tat merchants – you can buy virtually any product with Blessed Virgin branding (I won’t disclose details of the wee competition we started for the most inappropriate Virgin branded product, but the winner was astonishing).
The town centre is about 100 feet higher than the basilica and grotto so it’s a bit hilly, but the town is well used to visitors with impaired mobility so getting about oughtn’t be a problem. Those who are going for a dip in the grotto get their own wee soapbox car to wheech down the hill in, Oor Wullie style.
Anyway, hope there’s at least some useful info in there in amongst the drivel.
TBB
MARSPAPA
Lazio away.
The City Authority has issued a high security alert.That means there will be lots of Police with more power than normal.
The away support should only have tickets obtained from Celtic.Your name and date of birth should be printed on the back of the ticket and must match the info on your passport
Celtic supporters will be bussed to the stadium from Villa Borghese..No bags etc allowed -only your phone /wallet/passport and keys.You will be searched /have to show your ticket /passport before being allowed on a bus.When you arrive at the stadium you will be searched and then have your ticket read automatically-if the ticket info doesnt match the passport you will not be admitted.Drinking from a glass bottle on a street etc could get you lifted.
I’ve lived in Italy for a long time -Italian plod tend to vary between those that stick to the rules /those that are over zealous macho men and those that that think stuff this for a lark I’ll do the absolute minimum I can get away with.
macjay1 for Neil Lennon on 28th October 2019 9:21 am
SFTB
‘What specifically do the requisitioners hope to achieve ?’
####
Maybe, by accident rather than design, Res 12 has become something akin to a transitional demand, and the Board’s response has highlighted structural and systemic deficiencies in how the Club is structured.
In other news, John Greig is still a bastard.
Matt Stewart @ 9:30 am
I found that very funny :-)))