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Look at me, but not at my face

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By on CQN BLOG & Comments

I don’t get the flares thing. It’s not a part of my going-to-see-Celtic tradition. But if it was my thing, I’d have the courage of my convictions, I wouldn’t hide the fact.

There are consequences of bringing flares to football games, always has been. By not having the courage to openly ignite them, those consequences are not personalised to the individuals who regard this as an integral part of what they do at a football game, they are visited upon everyone in the vicinity, as well as the club.

The problem with flares at Celtic games is those who bring them hide the fact – as they clearly know there are consequences, and presumably aren’t too interested in taking responsibility for them. ‘Keen on flares, not keen enough to stand up for them’, is why the issue persists.

I get the attraction to bright, shiny, things, but this isn’t a campaign to bring the vote to disenfranchised people against a force who will execute the offender on sight. It’s about bringing a flare to a football game. If it’s so important, do it openly. If you think Health and Safety are simply wrong, find the evidence and use it in court. Have the courage to change something.  I know lots of Celtic fans who have had the courage to put their name to something they believed in, in recent years.  It’s seldom easy, but it has been done.

But in the years of this debate no one has ever pointed to evidence that igniting flares in a football ground is a clever thing to do. It’s just a ‘look at me’ exercise, ‘But don’t look at my face’, of course.

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Episode 5 of ‘A Celtic State of Mind’ finds Paul John Dykes and Kevin Graham discussing a variety of topical subjects concerning Celtic Football Club, including:

* What now for the Green Brigade?
* Dedryck Boyata – Are reinforcements on route?
* Virgil van Dijk – The windfall cometh;
* Emilio Izaguirre – Moving on.

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  1. petec on

    KEVJUNGLE,

     

     

    Yer actually a hero to me dude.

     

     

    I love yer Style.

     

     

    Dinnae ever ask me why.

     

     

    Yer Jibber Jabber is incredible. I love it.

     

     

    The olde rascar capac said to seperate sentences to make them easier to read for ALL.

     

     

    Here we go

  2. Sionnach Abu on

    PETEC on 25TH JULY 2017 3:25 AM

     

    Would be honoured to take the wee man’s seat in his absence.

     

    As for first or last impressions?

     

    Not what I am, O Lord, but what thou art.

     

    HH

  3. petec on

    Sionnach Abu on 25th July 2017 3:33 am

     

     

    Just waiting on Pat getting back to me.

     

     

    You do know I like starting songs. ;))

  8. Delaneys Dunky on

    Pete

     

     

    Always wished we played The Magnificent Seven by The Clash when Henrik scored. Was always sang in my head. :)

  11. petec on

    Delaneys Dunky,

     

     

    I’m Pete Tong,

     

     

    I’ve just killed another bottle of smirnoff – 2 hours.

     

     

    I’m now asking Everyone their Best songs.

     

     

    I cannae wait until Wednesday.

     

     

     

    I’ll be singing.

     

     

     

    I was so annoyed when BMG had me neutered.

     

    The dude was Massive.

  13. Sionnach Abu on

    PETEC on 25TH JULY 2017 3:36 AM

     

    It could get very noisy if we go down that road :-)

     

    First and foremost I’d have an obligation to keep the seat safe for the wee man’s next visit. Manners cost nothing.

     

    Plenty of pubs to drown you out with my dulcet tonned songs if thats your forte :-)

     

    HH

  14. petec on

    I find it Incredible what Dr Future is posting.

     

     

    He is a biggeer hero to me than Anyone online.

     

     

    Dr Future would be classed as a Protestant.

     

     

    Incredible stuff.

     

     

     

    I cannae wait to read the Chronicles.

  19. petec on

    Sionnach Abu……..

     

     

     

    Even Sober…… I will go Radio Rental in Support of Celtic.

     

     

    There is something so utterly intrinsic.

     

     

    Rosenborg.

     

     

    I will be the loudest. I have 2.

  21. Sionnach Abu on

    PETEC on 25TH JULY 2017 4:01 AM

     

     

    Mo chara let me know if I’m invited to the party, and how to get in contact etc, need to arrange xyz.

     

    HH

  31. BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS on

    Been reading back on a fair few pages of comments.

     

     

    It seems that there is pretty much unanimous agreement that the huns cheated,and that titles should be stripped-as they would be elsewhere. It also seems to be the case that there is,indeed,no appetite for such. At least amongst the powers-that-be,(and anyway,who would want to strip a hun?)

     

     

    If that also applies to Celtic,if they are intent on acceptance,then they-and the rest of Scottish football-can GTF.

     

     

    I’ve never been in favour of a boycott,its way too difficult to organise and to achieve. How do you measure its success? Is 25% take-up a success? 50%? Does it need to be 100% or it can be classed as a failure?

     

     

    How long do we do it for? Until one side caves?

     

     

    Should we be damaging Celtic and the rest of Scottish football when it is Celtic and the rest of Scottish football who are the victims in this?

     

     

    Well,put simply,if titles aren’t stripped,I don’t think we have much of a choice. Sad but true.

     

     

    I guess we could start by refusing to attend international and cup matches,cancelling Sky and BT. Boycotting the likes of Hills,Ladbrokes and McDonalds,newspapers,etc. As well as club merchandising.

     

     

    Maybe organise for one week where everyone attending doesn’t take their seats till the 20th minute. In other words,slowly turn the screw. Get people used to the process,then call a one-day total strike,where everyone is encouraged to turn their backs and refuse to go.

     

     

    Test the resolve of those who are treating us with contempt. Because one thing is certain,doing nothing and hoping for justice to prevail is no longer an option.

     

     

    How sad that it has come to this,all because of a lousy bunch of cheating huns.

  36. INVINCIBLE 'GG on

    According to the Scotsman the dye is already cast.

     

    Maybe they’re whistling in the wind.

     

    The new Scottish Professional Football League board are poised to confirm they will not pursue any further investigations into the validity of titles won by Rangers during the years the Ibrox club paid players through Employee Benefit Trusts.

     

     

    Keep up to date with all our sport news on The Scotsman’s Sport page on Facebook

     

     

    As first revealed by outgoing SPFL chairman Ralph Topping in an interview with The Scotsman ten days ago, the league body will rely on recent legal advice to resist any calls for the stripping of titles which have gathered momentum since the UK Supreme Court’s binding ruling in favour of HMRC against Rangers oldco liquidators BDO earlier this month.

     

     

    The SPFL board will issue a statement tomorrow which they intend to be their own final position on the issue. The Scottish FA have already ruled out any further disciplinary action.

  37. Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan on

    Moonbeamswd on 24th July 2017 9:55 pm

     

     

    The problem with any blog is that it is sometimes hard to pick up someone’s tone.

     

     

    My posts of yesterday are not meant to sound “defeated” at all – they are meant to strenuously reinforce my opinion that certain positions and points of view are legally and factually wrong.

     

     

    Celtic PLC are having their lawyers review the position and as I understand it they will follow up the clubs call for a review — an open and full review. Celtic have not called for the stripping of titles (a term I don’t like BTW as it deflects from the logic involved) because to make such a call prior to a full, open and independent review just makes no sense at all.

     

     

    You review, then you decide on the consequences of the review.

     

     

    To not review is just wrong.

     

     

    A review is not an “appeal” of LNS – though it may determine that LNS was wrongly decided, wrongly commissioned, wrongly set up etc

     

     

    In my opinion, there is no prospect of a judicial review at the Court of Session costing £5,000. That sum will only get you a counsel’s opinion on the legality and prospects of success for such a review, and possibly cover the initial commencement of the action.

     

     

    Further, judicial review is only one remedy and before you get very far down the road of judicial review then you face the fundamental question who has the right to bring one to court.

     

     

    Clearly, a football club which has full membership of the SFA has a clearer and more obvious, if not more automatically statable, right than an ordinary fan.

     

     

    But that then brings in the whole issue of minority shareholders rights. Can a club which has one vote, legally be said to have a right of review when, say, another eleven clubs have voted to go down one route or another in terms of the articles of association of the SPFL company etc.

     

     

    In my opinion, they can because a vote to do something that is legally wrong remains legally wrong whether the vote is ten to two, eleven to one or seven to five.

     

     

    However, the question remains will Celtic seek a judicial review? Only if that doesn’t happen do you get to the fans having an involvement. If Celtic PLC, per their board, decide not to seek a judicial review, do minority shareholders of Celtic PLC have the right to seek a judicial review of an SPFL decision?

     

     

    The very threat of that being tested in court is an intriguing one and one which I genuinely think will terrify many people in football and other sports.

     

     

    Blazers of all colours, and possibly many fans, will not welcome the prospect, and the possible outcomes of such a legal challenge should be considered by all at the very outset.

     

     

    A lot depends on what this statement says on Wednesday. Personally, I think it will say that the SPFL has decided to hold a review and it will say that the SPFL has not decided to take any remedial action at this juncture – though it may leave the “at this juncture” part out. It will also say (unecessarily in my opinion) that the SPFL has been given legal advice that it cannot impose any sanction on RFC PLC as that organisation is no longer a member of the SPFL or the SFA — and it will stop there.

     

     

    What does that then mean? It means there is going to be a review – nothing more, nothing less. How effective that review will be is as yet to be determined.

     

     

    The PR function at the SFA and SPFL is not the best so I would ignore what is in the press at the moment. In the past, the BBC have run with completely false stories and STV are managed by a click bait mentality.

     

     

    In purely legal terms. A judicial review is one remedy. An Action of Declarator is another – A declarator in Scottish law is a form of legal action by which some right of property, servitude, or status (or some other inferior right or interest) is sought to be judicially declared.

     

     

    Can a club, or indeed its shareholders, legally hold the SPFL/SFA to account when they are in the minority?

     

     

    The Court of Session may be asked to find and declare if this is possible.

     

     

    I have no knowledge as to what legal advice was sought by the SFA or the SPFL but simply saying that you can’t punish RFC PLC because they are no longer members doesn’t wash legally with me. The test is as stated in the Chernova case and is not dependent on the health or status of the person who was declared the winner of a competition at the time, nor is the correct legal test about taking action AGAINST anyone. Instead, the test is whether or not a competition has been won by someone who has used a prohibited method of participating, and if it has whether a tainted award should be allowed to stand for posterity. In considering that question, any court has to have regard to the other competitors — whether they are living or dead or in existence. The situation of the winner is not the be all and end all.

     

     

    However, my final point is not a legal one at all. Lawyers and the law are not and never should be the ultimate test of a business — especially an entertainment business. Something can be quite legal but utterly lacking in commercial support.

     

     

    Chess, for example, is governed by rules but it is hardly a viable mass participation spectator sport which attracts sponsorship.

     

     

    Football is. However, if the footballing public, or a large section of them, no longer have any faith in the fairness and integrity of the competitions in Scotland, then football participation and support will wither on the vine and will simply die a slow death. That is why I said you can simply flush it down the toilet and why Celtic may well be in a difficult position.

     

     

    Celtic PLC may well fight this all the way, be seen to do the right thing, and end up being the real victims of the EBT years. In my opinion that is entirely possible and the question that I, as an individual, would have to ask is whether or not I continue to support Celtic participating in a rigged and unfair game despite their best efforts.

     

     

    Sadly, my opinion is that I am not much interested in rigged sport no matter who the participants are, and I sure as hell am not going to contribute financially to an entertainment or sport where the rules can be ignored or changed on a whim when it suits some and despite the best intentions of others.

     

     

    That is a purely personal choice, based on personal principles, and not one which I would attempt to foist on others.

     

     

    BTW this view is not just based on events in Scotland either. I become increasingly disinterested in the Champions League and the actions of UEFA, have no interest at all in English football so don’t watch it or follow it, and genuinely believe that football’s time in the limelight is limited.

     

     

    One of the biggest reasons for following Celtic and watching football is that I enjoy the company of those who I watch with and socialise with surrounding the football. This is a factor not often considered by football clubs who often don’t see their commercial support as a social collective.

     

     

    I believe that to be a mistake, but that is a discussion for another day ………… possibly in a place that is far away from any commercially run football ground.

     

     

    With that I am off to enjoy the rest of the early morning in France and will head down to Spain later in the day.

     

     

    HH

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    To review but say that there will be no, or limited consequences, of such a review is illogical

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