In terms of pure logic, Ally McCoist was quite right to insist, “I can also assure every Rangers fan I will not be accepting any talk of stripping the club of titles. That is something we will never accept and everyone at the club shares this view.”
It is outrageous to put Sevco in the position of accepting Rangers are stripped of previous league titles while due process has not been carried out. The very fact that the SFA and SPL are negotiating with Sevco over this matter is reason enough for McCoist to issue a firm rebuttal. Quite simply, if the authorities are prepared to negotiate, their offer should be rejected until the last moment possible, at which point they will be meekly accepted.
The SFA and SPL must allow due process to take place and remove any need for Sevco to rubber-stamp a judgement on Rangers. It is wholly inappropriate to discuss or agree the consequences of a guilty verdict, or subsequent punishments (losing titles won illegally is not a punishment), until a verdict is recorded.
Due process, please, nothing more and nothing less. If Rangers didn’t illegally register players for over a decade neither they nor Sevco have anything to worry about.
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Bobby Murdoch’s…
Well well, a Kilwinning Tim! Take my hat off to you sir! Remember my days at the ould school fondly, believe it or not! We were like a wee enclave, and where I lived at the time we were bussed in and out: Some days it was like coming into a war zone! Speaking to an old friend recently who, like yourself was a Kilwinning bhoy, and he recounted how all the local bhoys from the school had to literally fight their way home most days, usually against grown men! They were a hardy bunch!
HH!!
After the weekend’s humping at Ajax, and after some reflection, I’m still really rather pleased to be a supporter of Sieveco.
or should that be jabbiasm?
Has to be said,yon big yella thing’s splittin’ the trees down in the Shire of York.
The Battered Bunnet on 23 July, 2012 at 11:39
The Road
Blood Meridian
Cormac McCarthy at his best…..
……….and finally………………(honest)
“I will never accept that it is not butter………Never!”
;)
CQNers,
So does that mean that the away leg in HEL is nailed on for August 8?
HH
Tallybhoy on 23 July, 2012 at 11:53 said:
Speaking to an old friend recently who, like yourself was a Kilwinning bhoy, and he recounted how all the local bhoys from the school had to literally fight their way home most days, usually against grown men! They were a hardy bunch!
———————————————————————————————-
A hardy bunch?????????????
BMCUWP,please ignore ,any cheeky texts I sent you over weekend.
@ ASonOfDan
Thanks! If you could tell me who the first goal scorer will be and the final score as well, it would help fund my trip home ;)
@ danso_1888
Yikes Jabbaism! An illogical hate of all “Irish Tosh”, an abnormally fat heid and the ability ramble on in a manic and disillusionable manner. Taught Hateley everything he knows.
KJam
Commons, 4-0 Celtic.
KJam
yip jabbiasm does have a cult ring to it, it is what sevco just needed to rally them.
this will bring a smile to your face i guaran-damn-tee it lol
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/530242_238413966278667_1875209466_n.jpg
Told you lol
HH
Portsmouth administrator Trevor Birch has warned that the club could be liquidated within the next fortnight. The League One club is trying to negotiate with eight senior players, but their refusal to compromise over wage demands has left Pompey at the brink of extinction.
Nwankwo Kanu has also lodged a claim for £3m in back pay and Birch says it is the players who have the future of the team in their hands.
“The club is heading for liquidation in just a few weeks, perhaps two weeks if these players don’t leave or compromise on their wages,” Birch said.
“We still have players like Ben Haim, Dave Kitson and Kanu on our books.
“Kanu has served the club notice that he wants to leave but before doing so he wants the money he says is owed to him by the club. These players hold the survival of the club in their hands.
“I must stress it is not their fault as the players didn’t get the club into this trouble, but they do now have the ability to get the club out of this mess.
“The problem with everybody is that this club has cried wolf so often that no one believes it will happen, no one believes they will go out of business, but they will in two or three weeks. It is that serious now. The trouble is ‘Portsmouth fatigue’, but the truth is that the club is now fighting for its life.”
KJam,
having said that the other fat one on ff may not take to kindly unless! is jabba
possibly suck in reality so that would be suck ma jabbiasm, mmmmmmmmm
ibleedgreenandwhite1 – Can’t wait till Sevco faces Clyde.
The Bully Wee versus the Wee Bullies. (thumbsup)
philvisreturns on 23 July, 2012 at 12:13 said:
ibleedgreenandwhite1 – Can’t wait till Sevco faces Clyde.
The Bully Wee versus the Wee Bullies. (thumbsup)
Lol Lol Lol
HH
ibleedgreenandwhite1
Thanks mate, you were correct :))))
CelticRumours saying Sevco are only accepting cash for ticket sales; the gift that keeps on giving.
roy croppie – CelticRumours saying Sevco are only accepting cash for ticket sales
C’est magnifique, Hooky Street. (thumbsup)
.
Wing Commander..
Thanks for the Welcome home..
Yes l know SydneyTim..in fact it was me Who after many Therapy sessions Diagnosed him with RPCS (Repetitive Post Content Syndrome)..a Rare form of IBS (Internet Bampot Syndrome)..
Will catch up Soon..
Summa ft AsGoodAsItGetsCSC
philvisreturns
I hope some Div 3 clubs are looking out that old classic, just to rub it in like :))
Sevco saying they don’t think the Brechin game will go ahead? Or just covering themselves in case?
roy croppie – From Peterhead to Berwick and all points in between, they’re gonna be molligated. Most fans of these clubs didn’t like Rangers and they won’t like Sevco. (thumbsup)
Good Morning,
There was a flurry of activity over on RTC yesterday following Alex Thompson’s decision to name the three members of the FTT, whose decision we await with baited breath.
From somewhere, the suggestion came that perhaps the chairman of the Tribunal, Mr Ken Mure QC, may just have an establishment club leaning and there followed questions about his objectivity in the proceedings and whether this had any part in the delay in issuing the long expected decision.
I would have to say, that I believe such fears to be not only unfounded, but also completely and utterly groundless, of no merit, and to be honest really rather pathetic. One comment from somewhere seemed to delve into the Mure family ancestry, reaching a conclusion that as the Mure’s seemed to have come from Ayrshire, and all Ayrshire men were Rangers men, therefore the Chairman will be a Rangers fan….. perhaps.
Given that I know many Ayrshire men who are most definitely not Rangers Men, and many that are Celtic men ( and women ), I cannot follow the logic here at all. Further, one only had to follow the efforts of those from Ayrshire ( who supported many clubs other than Rangers ) during the appeal for Vanessa Riddle ( an Ayrshire Lass ) to realise that such a broad generic brush was always going to be total nonsense– Ayrshire is populated with fans of all clubs and fans of no club at all!
However, none of that argument relates to or pertains to the FTT Chair for the following reasons:
First, I don’t know where anyone got the idea that Ken is an Ayrshire man. To my certain knowledge his familial stamping ground is the Inner Hebrides where he spends the vast majority of his leisure time when not resident in his city home.
Secondly, Having employed him as counsel over a number of years I have never heard him utter the word football never mind the words Rangers, Celtic, Partick Thistle or any other team.
Whilst he surprised me once by mentioning that he jogs ( I near fell off my seat! ) I would have to stress my opinion that he has more interest in juggling plates whilst riding a unicycle blindfolded across a busy motorway, than he has in football.
Thirdly, I know of one Celtic supporting former HMRC official who has “jumped ship” to the other side when it comes to representing folk at FTT’s and the like, and he stresses that in his opinion you are not likely to get anyone better or fairer than Ken Mure in chairing an enquiry of any kind. He and I have discussed this particular FTT in the past and his comment was that “well at least you know with Ken, he will get it right!”. That is a view that I share without reservation. If I was the counsel for HMRC in this case, I would be delighted to have Mure in the chair!
Fourth. The later Peter McCann used to describe Mure as ” Class– just class!”
Wee Peter was not one to harbour a bigot nor any counsel, solicitor, judge or anyone else who in his opinion either lacked objectivity or failed to cover all the ground on behalf of a client. That Mure fitted his bill tells you something, because wee Peter could be as cantakerous as they come at the drop of a hat and for no discernable reason if he thought there was even a hint of bias or impropriety. I liked Peter, but God he could be as difficult as they come on many issues, and if he thought there was a hint of “iffyness” about Ken Mure he would have sent him packing as a matter of principle! He didn’t, and like me, he retained him on a regular basis– not because he was flamboyant, or bendable, or biddable– but because he was just plain ….GOOD!
( remind me at another time to recall the tale of the day wee Peter was told by Mrs Thatcher that the Secretary of State would be in touch– and his reaction to that promise! )
Lastly, I have to rely on my own experience here, as I have employed Ken in the past in various civil matters going back many years — especially if they involved technically complex matters, and even once I had him conduct a case which was several months in the preparation and several days in the hearing, which involved complex financial transactions and the detailed technical mechanisms that are employed in a series of stock market transactions and so on.
Ken Mure can take an age to go through each and every step in any such process, going into detail after detail, and eaking out patterns, systems, practices, protocols and habits. He can be wrong ( everyone can ), but in my experience he is painstakingly thorough– to the extent that he can be mind numbingly repetative and boring by necessity– often meaning that matters are protracted and seemingly endless.
What he is not– is biased in any which way or form, or short of that much bandied word….. integrity.
For my own take on where we are with the FTT I go back to something which I read– although I cannot remember where.
That was a comment from wither someone at the Tribunal Office or from the HMRC side who indicated that the decision was expected sometime in the “summer of 2012″– namely round about now!
I have long held the belief that the findings in this decision will put the sum due by way of unpaid tax into the very dark shade!For me, the amount was always going to be a complete irrelevence when compared to the mechanism and practice involved.Always bear in mind that mechanism and practice involve knowledge and compliance, and in an illegal or unlawful scheme, it is that knowledge and compliance– and what you do with it— that will damn you in the eyes of the law!
Not so long ago, the newspaper headlines were blaring out the fact that Rangers PLC could owe £x or £y and that Alastair Johnstone had indicated that the company could go bust as a result!
Well the company has gone bust without the FTT ruling that it is due a penny. Now you can blame Whyte for this or you can try and bring in Duff & Phelps or whoever but that is to simply cloud the issue. No, doubt both of those parties have had their roles to play in the demise of Rangers PLC, but let’s be clear that at this juncture all we can say is that neither of those parties were prepared or were allowed to present a set of accounts or sign off a financial picture in the fashion of the board that held the keys of the kingdom before Whyte appeared.
The lack of accounting information, whether audited or not, is something that continues to hamper and indeed strangle the remnants of what once was Rangers PLC and the football authorities in Scotland. It is a handicap which is now highlighted with no one being prepared to provide any answer as to how any successor organisation is going to be funded going forward, nor how they will comply with the fiscal regulation and compliance structures demanded by a UEFA registered football club. Any projected figures must draw comparison with the financial documents submitted to the SFA and the SPL in the past, and you may well find that at some point in the future the past accounts come in for severe scrutiny and criticism.
That will ultimately prove to be hugely significant.
The FTT decision will not only look at the contracts, the payments, the EBT and how it was administered– but also who did what, when they did it, what knowledge they had, who they reported to, who they were monitored by and so on– all with a view to whether or not any individual or collective actions fell into an area or pattern where it could be said that they were complying with the law on EBT’s — or more importantly whether or not those very same actions were clearly an attempt to deceive HMRC and to disguise a deliberate attempt to present a knowingly false EBT position with a view to unlawfully avoiding tax or defeating a tax investigation. Note that the two are very different!
I agree with the comment, made elsewhere, that the FTT might have to consider whether or not their findings could effectively constitute a judicial finding that certain behaviour was in fact criminal or could be criminal– further in the course of actually hearing evidence– it may well be that the Tribunal would have to warn certain witnesses that they are not obliged to give any evidence or answer any question that may implicate them in criminal activity which then may be repeated and relied upon in an altogether different type of hearing.Even those appearing for MIH may have had to ask the chair to explain this part of the law to certain witnesses, in the interests of protecting those witnesses in relation to potential future legal process. The legality and admissability of any singular piece of evidence here may, of itself, take up several pages in the final judgement. It will be that detailed.
No— where once the MSM would have been all over the level of financial misappropriation that the FTT will bring out in their finding, I am quite certain that when the decision appears, it will not be the amount of tax dodged that grabs the headlines– it will be the way it was dodged, over what period, by whom and the lengths they went to to do it and cover it up– that will be genuinely newsworthy.
Also remember, that this tribunal finding will also have to publicly rule on the credibility or otherwise of some of the major players. It will be a major issue if some people are regarded as just not being credible or to be frank just lying through their teeth for fraudulent ends.
Given that the detail of the finding may well lead to further legal process and that the same detail will be poured over by a section of the media who ( with the greatest of respect to them ) will be ill equipped to deal and understand the implication of that detail— the Tribunals office will be determined to ensure that the full import of the decision has been examined, considered and if necessary acted upon before it goes public.
Of even greater concern may well be the fact that the MSM may well pour over and comment on certain aspects of the evidence and then comment at large in the daily blatt or whatever– thus potentially influencing or steering the public view– whether intentionally or otherwise!
If it is the case that some of what has happened behind the scenes at Ibrox does merit criminal proceedings in the eyes of the Tribunal, then you may find that not only is the FTT decision delayed, but that the detailed decision is not made public at all for fear of the MSM blabbing on in an ill informed manner and so having a direct effect on potential jurors who at some point in the future may well be asked to determine an altogether different, but related, legal question. The Tribunal will be very conscious of that. In the past, criminal trials have been moved to a completely different court or jurisdiction on the simple basis that potential jurors may well have been influenced in advance by press comments and advance publicity concerning the matters at hand.
I have no worries at all over Mure QC, absolutely none at all, but I suspect that the judgement itself will be very VERY detailed in all sorts of ways, and if you think that Mark Daly’s Panorama programme lifted a lid I would bet you ain’t seen nuthin yet!
new article posted.
Sevco probably dont qualify to have card processing facilities; have they published previous accounts?
TBB
I’ll be re reading ‘Great Expectations’ which I’ve found free on the ole iBooks, via
Apple.
What Larks CSC
Whoo hoo! Lunch! See you in a bit CQN!
01 Bhoy,
off to bed, early start tomorow. Hope to see you at Melbourne Celtic Club soon.
Wing Commander
voguepunter
I wanted to keep it clean, hence ” a hardy bunch”!
What I really wanted to say was…”they were all f****n mental bampots!”
HH!!
Gerrys son on 23 July, 2012 at 11:45 said:
Sorry – but that is too simplistic – and a trap many fans fall into. It is plain wrong. 6M on a centre back and striker, and then if we don’t qualify for the CL we can sell another player to recoup some of the outlay (eg: Ki). This means the team is stronger overall, helps push us on in the europa league (meaning more income) and helps us domestically, as well as selling more tickets (as let’s face it, a couple of new signings always gives fans more confidence).
if we do however qualify, we don’t need to sell the other player (Ki) and so the ‘speculation’ has paid off.