Old Lumley-troubled used a classic rhetorical technique yesterday. Give your target audience lots of points to consider which you know they will agree with; build empathy, get heads nodding, fists banging on tables, then slip in the line you are trying to sell. As a piece of prose, you have to respect the statement. This guy, or his writer, has not only read the Greeks, he’s understood their importance.
If Sir David is right, Rangers issued no side contracts, all non-discretionary payments to players in connection to football were registered, if the redacted contract which appeared in The Sun in March was a piece of fiction, if the prima facie evidence presented by Duff and Phelps was an error, he and his soon to be liquidated former club have nothing to worry about.
Cicero CSC.
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@Rioskorrie
NURSE!
Thats as bad an idea as a chap I know who is adament that the top two teams in the league, no matter the points gap, whould play off at the end of year to determine ‘champion’
philvisreturns
Agree!
I’ve done the crazy bit but I’m alright now!
Celtic FC….,
My young brother prints off well written and relevant posts from a number of blogs\sites such as here and rtc and gives them to the old man, who usually cant wait for the next installment.
Do your old man a favour and give him something to read rather than instruction s about what he needs to do :o)
Love the way Rangerstaxcase inserts a caveat in every piece implying that a healthy chunk of the Rangers support really give two flying ducks about sporting fairness and the interests of Scottish football.
Just for clarification, I’m not sure if they do.
thebunnet
Mathers at the top of broughton street has it on. ( Celtic Bar Requests,KDS )
HH
up_over_goal – They really don’t.
Most of them thought it was hilarious when Pastor Mike McCurry was strutting his Elmer Gantry-ish stuff, for example.
As a support, their mentality is infantile and solipsistic. (thumbsup)
If there is anywhere near a Sea Change in Scottish Football, and if the MSM want to play a part in this, then the Post from RTC
http://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com/2012/08/08/digging-the-hole-ever-deeper/
will get as much exposure as the pages of lies issued by Murray earlier this week.
Has there ever been a more discredited figure than Murray in the History of Scottish Sport and Scottish business ?
Good Afternoon,
I wonder how many Glaswegians and others ever dropped in to a basement licensend premises in Glasgow’s Renfield street called…….. “Fouquet’s”?
Fouquet’s was a large basement bar diner, with a darky and smokey atmospheric, complete with large standing barrells to rest your drinks on. The overall impression was of a brick cellar with french feel which obviously stemmed from the name of the premises.
That name caused controversy even before the place opened with the then clerk to the City of Glasgow Licensing Board ( or its predeceesor body ) expressing some concern as to just how the proposed name would be pronounced by the local Glaswegian! It was feared that the bar/diner would perhaps be referred to as something which rhymed with say….. Bayne and Duckett rather than the frenchified——-” Foooooookaaays” as was intended.
For those not familiar with French History, the story of Nicholas Fouquet is one that is apt in light of recent statements by Sir David Murray and indeed in light of the recent singings by the Rangers Football club– now fully licensed by the Scottish Football Association.
Nicolas Fouquet, marquis de Belle-Île, vicomte de Melun et Vaux (January 27, 1615 – March 23, 1680) was the Superintendent of Finances in France from 1653 until 1661 under King Louis XIV. He fell out of favor with the young king, probably because of his extravagant displays of wealth, and the king had him imprisoned from 1661 until his death in 1680.
Basically, Fouquet’s rise and subsequent fall, came from his apparently great wealth and his ability to sort not only his own vast fortune to meet his own extravagent needs, but also his management of the finances of the King and the entire Royal Court whose greed knew no bounds. Rather than act as a prudent Chancellor and reign in extravagent spending, Fouquet would simply use court funds when needed, and on occasion use his own credit for Government business instead of actually balancing the books of the King of France. Even the first Minister of France, Cardinal Mazarin, who was technically meant to oversee the activities of Fouquet became embroiled in the mess, as he too was a ” Big Spender” as the Lady from Tiger Bay would say.
The disorder in the accounts became hopeless; fraudulent operations were entered into with impunity, and the financiers were kept in the position of clients by official favours and by generous aid whenever they needed it. Fouquet’s fortune now surpassed even Mazarin’s, but the latter was too deeply implicated in similar operations to interfere, and was obliged to leave the day of reckoning to his agent and successor Jean-Baptiste Colbert.
When Mazarin died in 1661, The young King decided that he would be his own first minister and very quickly became suspicious about Fouquet’s bookeeping, his control and his personal ambition. This was made all the worse by Fouquet building his own ” Big Hoose”. He had spent enormous sums in building a magnificent château on his estate of Vaux-le-Vicomte, which in extent, magnificence and splendour of decoration was a forerunner of Versailles. The coat of arms of Fouquet’s family traditionally showed a squirrel and bore the motto “Quo non ascendet?” (“How far could it climb?”)– which some say referred to Fouquets ambition, status and wealth.
Eventually the 22 year old King could stand such flaunting of wealth and privelege no longer and by August of 1661 he had planned Fouquet’s downfall. During a meeting with the King at Nantes, Fouquet was arrested by a captain of musketeers named d’Artagnan— someone who was to show throughout his life the most remarkeable dignity and fairness in carrying out his duties and who befriended prisoner and king alike– such was his attention to justice and fairness towards all men. Of course, later, d’Artagnan was to feature in the books of Dumas but that is fiction and for another day.
Fouquet was subsequently tried and convicted ( possibly unfairly in certain respects ) but he had committed the cardinal crime of simply ignoring proper fiscal governance using his own funds and those of the Government ( the King ) intermittently and making no attempt at proper financial reconciliation and disclosure. Fouquet remained imprisoned and ruined until his death, and for years was guarded over by d’Artagnan– who was a civil, hospitable, helpful but reluctant jailer!
Fouquet comes to mind in the current climate of Scottish Football. David Murray’s statement of the other day sets out what the great Knighted one would have you believe to be the true state of the finances of Rangers Football club under his watch. There was no cheating, there was no non disclosure, there was no covering up and so on and so forth.
RTC has revealed on Twitter that there is plenty of evidence afoot to dispell much of what Murray has said and that we only have to wait for the FTT to publish its decision to see that this is so.
From what evidence has become public, there is much to suggest that the entire EBT set up by Rangers or Murray International Holdings was a sham. The Trustees were not truly independent, they did not decide off their own bat who was to receive money and when, the so called loans were never really loans and basically the so called scheme presented and promoted was designed to mask the truth.
While it may be technically the case that the money that was “donated” by Rangers PLC to the trust has gone from the club per the accounts, if the method of making that money “gone” was a sham and a falsehood, designed to avoid the proper payment of taxes, then that entire mechanism and everyone involved in its operation– from start to finish– is attackable by the liquidator and even perhaps by others.
However, unlike Monsieur Fouquet who was left to govern himself more or less, Rangers PLC should have been subject to some stringent checks and balances.
The SFA ultimately had the job of checking and AUDITING the Rangers compliance position in accordance with their own rules, the rules of UEFA and the Rules of FIFA. The SFA is still under the same obligations today, and have a duty to check and see that Licensed clubs are complying with the rules that they have undertaken to adhere to.
I have copied below, some of the relevent sections taken directly from the SFA handbook.
Have a look at the first three links and see what clubs have to do and provide to the SFA as part of the licensing process, and see what the SFA Auditor has to do in fulfilling his duties.
The fourth link, is the page from the SFA website where the first three links come from. This page will take you to other interesting parts of the process that must be adhered to.
One of the great points to debate in this whole saga is just what did the SFA and its officers do to ensure proper fiscal governance at Rangers PLC during the Murray years? Were they vigilant and duped? Were they complicit? Were they negligent? Were they fully aware of what was going on but thought it legal, or were they misinformed or misled in any way?
My question or should I say questions on some detail are as follows:
Did these annual Audits take place during the Murray Era? If so when? Who was the financial officer nominated by Rangers PLC to liase with the SFA? Who did he report to within Rangers PLC and where and with whom did he collate his documentation for passing to the SFA. What role was played and what knowledge of the matters disclosed did the managers of the club have?
When did the Audits take place? Where are the reports that the Auditor must make to the licensing committee? Who saw those reports? what did they contain? Did they mention EBT payments and if not — why not? Who completed the wages to turnover questionnaire and who signed it off? What was the significance- in the eyes of the SFA– in that document?
Finally with regard to The Rangers Football Club– given that they have no accounts and no financial history– what has the SFA been told about their projected wagebill compared to turnover and what assurances have the SFA been given in respect of their ability to meet their fianancial obligations? Does the SFA have any concerns about the current signing policy, the wages being paid and so on– given that there are football debts still outstanding and that traditionally Rangers- in any shape or form– can now be viewed as a failed club financially?
An examination of History often leads us to the best path for the future and with respect to the SFA they need not look back to the days of Monsieur Fouquet to see where ignoring proper accounts can lead to disaster– they only have to look at the records collected by their own Auditor to see where things must have gone awry somehere down Govan way in the past.
The again– perhaps no one at the SFA ever did an Audit, or never bothered examening the books of Rangers PLC at all and rather relied upon the past public pronouncements of Sir David?
However, I wonder how the Footballing powers that be would react if Charles Green came out and said that for every £1 the clubs in Division 3 spend he will spend £30– because that appears to be roughly where we are!
Perhaps there will be no peering over the shoulder of The Rangers Football Club by the SFA as their own rules appear to demand…….. perhaps they just don’t give a…………. Fouquet!!!
http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/ClubLicensing/PartTwo-NationalClubLicensing/3.%20The%20Club%20and%20the%20Licence%20Award%20(2)b.pdf
http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/ClubLicensing/PartTwo-NationalClubLicensing/4.%20Core%20Process%20(2)b.pdf
http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/ClubLicensing/PartTwo-NationalClubLicensing/8%20%20Legal%20Admin%20&%20Finance%20Criteria%20(2).pdf
http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/football_document_libraries.cfm?page=2570
———————————————————————————————————-
By the way, and as an aside, compare the number of EBT payments revealed & broadcast by Mark Daly to the number quoted in the latest RTC Post ;-0)
Philbhoy- ha ha!
How is your health, back hitting the wee ball yet?
Enjoy your meal/the game tonight, I’m sure yer missus knows all about your wee ruse!
” Book’im Danno…..”
philvis
Ooh but there’s nothing that gets me more hot under the collar than a solipsism.
Paul McC on 8 August, 2012 at 11:27 said:
I know it has been mentioned – but I have not seen any convincing answers yet.
======================
It is unlikely that you ever will.
When asked if they retained their history, the CEO of the governing body said it was a matter of opinion !
There is no chance of getting a convincing answer from that lot about anything that runs contrary to the master plan.
What’s happened to the FTT?
Why no result? The delay seems unusually long, by all accounts.
Has the decision been made and if so why is it being kept secret?
Is it being swept under the carpet?
I think we should be told.
up_over_goal – Do you know what really gets my goat?
A shepherd. (thumbsup)
Philbhoy -what’s happened to the FTT? they’ve asked for an extension.
Goldstar10
Not golfed since CQN outing to Leven last September.
Hope to be back on the links soon!
Hear you are hitting it good!
Take care.
BRTH,brilliant as usual. It should be kept simple, as RTC has provided in his example with Gavin Rae. Rae wasn’t even near being the biggest earner, so what the hell were the rest of the EBT guys on? Meanwhile I’m still waiting for a bar in Stirling showing the game. Otherwise it’s the session in the Saddle Inn. Complete with CQN badge, of course. I’ll be intrigued to learn iif any of the Scottish Trad players follow the Celts.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/9460950/Google-pays-just-6m-UK-tax-on-profits-of-3.95bn.html
Not just the huns that don’t believe in paying their taxes.
Any pubs in the West End showing the game?
Rascar…,
every pub, its the only show in town :oD)))))
you’ll be wanting to go to the
smiddy
dolphin
tennants
philvisreturns
:-)
Raymac
stop and consider—– THE SFA AUDITOR SHOULD HAVE FULL KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT RAE WAS PAID__ BASIC AND BONUS____AND SHOULD HAVE HAD A FULL AUDIT REPORT FOR THE THEN CHIEF EXEC!
EH__ WHERE IS IT? WHO WAS HE? DOES HE HAVE ANY BACKGROUND IN FINANCIAL AFFAIRS?
Canamalar
Smiddy it is then.
BRTH
….but he might have signed some documents…..
BRT&H,
any idea who was Rae’s agent
BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS – Usual journalistic stupidity and fail when it comes to numbers.
The headline says: “Google pays just £6m UK tax on profits of £3.95bn”
The article says: “the UK business had paid £935,000 of tax on revenues of £2.39bn”
Which is it?
Also note corporation tax is a tax on PROFITS, not on revenues.
On a more general point: Google makes us all richer, more connected, and better informed, at no cost to its users. They create jobs and wealth all around the world, including the UK. Their existence and the services they provide owe nothing to HM Government.
So, why should they pay more tax than they legally have to? (thumbsup)
Good news Philbhoy, will be great to have you back!
HH
Canamalar
No idea who his agent was– but it was about time that the agents of all the players were brought to the fore…………..
philvis..,
do you know what they legally have to pay
BRT&H
was hoping it might have been a certain Mr Smith :o)
Neil canamalar Lennon hunskelper extrordinaire – do you know what they legally have to pay
No idea, I’m not a tax accountant.
However, I’m pretty sure Google’s tax accountants know what they legally have to pay.
If they aren’t obeying the law, I expect HMRC to pursue them through the courts. (thumbsup)
Ole Billy Dodds said the agent took care of all of it[the EBT]; either very trustin’ of ole Billy or very stupid.
But if he’s that daft how come ole Shortbread are employin’ him as an expert summariser?
Anyways, coverage on wireless of game against Methil Magyars was
a complete Shortbread Circle Jerk.
I had to go out in the garden and kill me some slugs.
Just had a text from a mate mentioning rtc and Gavin raes contract,anyone know any more?
Google’s tax is sorted by their backers at the USArmy/CIA/DHS.
no hooper for me tonight, at least not to start. Izzy has to play by default due to lack of choice:
Forster
Mathews
Charlie
Rogne
Izzy
Forrest (assume Brown not fit)
Kayal
Victor
Joe
Commons
Sammy
philbhoy – it’s just the beginning!
13:03 on 8 August, 2012
>>>>>>
You are right…..ergo minimal viewing of the corrupt and bloated morass that football,worldwide,has become.
CelticTV,Celtic merchandise,visits to Parkhead as and when.
People like Philvis can chortle all they want,but he’s just a fascist eejit and is representatiive of the worst in society,but hey,we are a broad church and accomodating Philvis is the least we can do in the hope of rehabilitating him. Don’t get me wrong….he can be witty and makes the occasional incisive point…but I have been warned often enough on here to just ignore him. Sometimes it just feels good to retort.
HH!
Ogilvie is such a great administrator of the game perhaps he did a few haudits n daudits in his time?
DonB / kdc,
A rare idea indeed…….However, only the best of “sheet” go’s thru the skorrie’s hubble bubble.
Out of interest why do you think my “less lucid League” idea be a poor one? Only thing I can see (and I suppose, the stumblilng block) would be the poor attendances for the home League games. Wonder where we can get a “realtime” model of that particular scenario, eh?