Old Lumley-troubled used a classic rhetorical technique yesterday. Give your target audience lots of points to consider which you know they will agree with; build empathy, get heads nodding, fists banging on tables, then slip in the line you are trying to sell. As a piece of prose, you have to respect the statement. This guy, or his writer, has not only read the Greeks, he’s understood their importance.
If Sir David is right, Rangers issued no side contracts, all non-discretionary payments to players in connection to football were registered, if the redacted contract which appeared in The Sun in March was a piece of fiction, if the prima facie evidence presented by Duff and Phelps was an error, he and his soon to be liquidated former club have nothing to worry about.
Cicero CSC.
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Marrakesh Express
I don’t think we really expected the governing bodies(eg. SFL) to cave and credit them with history of the dead club. On second thoughts maybe we should have expected this.
Hopefully, BDO or Trading Standards will have a quiet word:)
HH
Paul67
Hi, is there any chance of putting A refresh button at the bottom of the last message as when on my IPhone I find it hard to keep my spot after refreshing. I’m not a very patient person and think I may just give up trying.
Thanks Born 67……
Could someone let me know which channel the game is on tonight? Ta
SonsofErin
Looks like its over to BDO then. Hopefully they’ll be in the door soon.
HH
If they claim the the honours they must also accept the estate of the dead club, including its debts
Marrakesh Express….
I agree with you regarding sevco’s history.
If a sevco fan was truthful and admitted-they are a new club with no history and zero titles etc. but they were going to make sure sevco get to same level of the dead club.ie SPL, winning titles ( without cheating )
Were’s the fun in that.
All this we’re still rangers, 140 years, x amount of titles, blah de blah.
Just shows how much they are hurting and I LOVE IT!!
itsabouttim on 8 August, 2012 at 10:29 said:
On another point, does anyone know of a site yet on which we might see the game tonight?
———————————————————————
If you type ‘watch Helsinki v Celtic’ into google you will find it.
HH
CQN not user friendly at the minute – with the positive being I spend less time on it I suppose.
Kdc
Niggling injuries come from bad preparation? You have obviously never met my knees, or my ankles.
Different sports pout different strains on your body. A football player will run 10k avg per game competitively 30+ times a season. Whilst twisting turning and being Blootered if he played for Celtic.
Same distance a triathlete runs maybe a half dozen times competitive a year.
traditionalist88 – I have a worry on that point.
I believe insolvency law states that a company cannot take on the name/marks etc of a company which has been liquidated in the last 12 months.
Oldco has changed it’s name to RFC2012 Ltd or some such. Newco has taken on “The Rangers Ltd”.
All this has happened while oldco is in administration, not liquidation. When liquidation hits oldco will not be “Rangers”, newco will.
I wonder if they could pull it off under a technicality.
Watching what PretendyGers are up to I’ve decided to never pay any kind of tax ever again,get into all the debt I can with no intention of repaying any of it,change my name on a regular basis and generally flim-flam my way through life. That seems to be the accepted way of life as laid out by “one of Scotland’s greatest institutions” and perpetually lauded by the msm,so that’s okay then. If called to account I’ll just get all huffily arrogant and refer everything to my twisted lawyer who’ll work even more flim-flammery in the courts. I’ll be rollin’ in it before you know it.
Great. Thank you Sevco for showing us all the way forward. Thank you rfc for your pioneering economics.
We’re all gonna be billionaires!
Ole Giorgios is our #1 triathlete- a/ top footballer b/ top hairstyle c/top Enigma.
SonsOfErin
Thats clearly what is being attempted alright- still, they can’t change the fact they were incorporated in 2012:)
HH
hopefully we can progress in the cl tonight. on the issue of ki and/or others being sold, we should always be looking for top doller. as a celtic support who has watch ki in a celtic top i dont think 7 million is a bad return for his contribution on the pitch. will we keep all our talented young players together in the longer terms? answer: imo no. does it make sense to try to keep them?
answer: imo no, we need to get the best price for them.
imo we should have at least 4 proven quality players in the core of our team. i.e. quality goalkeeper, quality centreback, quality centremid and quality centre forward.
thereafter we should have a team built up of late teeen, early 20 something players with high potential levels i.e. some will become the long-term quality players and others will be sold to allow for other young players to progress into the first team. this will encourage quality young players to sign up to celtic time and again and will give celtic the necessary strength needed to produce teams and squad good enough to preform at a good level.
what needs to happen to keep everyone happy imo is for celtic to get smarter about how and when they buy and sell, fans dont like to see players leave but will also get a buzz about players coming in. to keep the feelgood factor celtic need to make sure they have players lined up before july and before they sell top assets and have to stop the negative talk about this model being a need and making it desirable.
imo celtic have an underdeveloped business models which rely to heavily on the success of the team on the pitch, i.e. cl participation hence the imcome generated is not stable from one season to the next. when we sell top players we should use 50% on the recruitment of younger players of high potential and the other 50% on developing the infustructure of the club, as i have said many times the celtic triange, hotels, heating systems at ground etc… is the way celtic can make long term changes rather than bumping along the bottom of the european football ladder and complaining about our lot.
i know i am like a broken record!!!!!!!!!!!!
The blog looks new on my BlackBerry and old on my laptop. Still, I’m sure it will all work itself out in the end. These major changes from old to new are never easy…
Prince A_K of H
Many thanks, I’ll try that.
CelticFC @10:42
‘I say well done to Wolves for standing firm, If they dont need to sell and he’s contracted for so many amount of years then they’ve every right to demand what they want, as I said In an earlier post this Is what we shoudl be doing too’
Moxey will sell at £12m most probably with a player and a sell on % built into the deal. Its a very good price for a player like Fletcher. Failure to sell at a good price leaves an unhappy player who is not committed to the club as well as being on £40k a week
Hence the reason we will sell KI this month. His deal has 18 months left on it. He won’t sign a new one. Keeping him for another season will see his value plummet to the price we bought him for. If Arsenal, Man City are prepared to pay £9m now, then it is a no brainer to sell
Providing Lenny sees a chunk of the money to improve the first XI of course
Never forget, Rangers are deid, the newco is just the hyenas feasting on its corpse!
greenjedi/traditionalist88 – I’ve made this point before, there’s a clear distinction between the legal entity (company) and the sporting entity (club).
Debts are tied to the legal entity, which was liquidated. There’s no real manner in which these can be carried over.
Sporting entity – This only exists in the world of football, and can only be ratified by the relevant sporting body (SFA).
In a legal sense they are different, fair enough. In a sporting sense they are the same, to be ratified by the SFA, fair enough. However this makes them liable for all sporting transgression of the former sporting entity, and subject to any sporting rules/sanctions etc imposed by the SFA and the Court of Arbitration for Sport. This is why the SFA have made them pay the outstanding transfer fees of oldco, because this is a sporting sancton rather than a legal debt.
If the dual contract SPL investigation rules against them they’ll be spending plenty of time in CAS, not least a claim 50m claim by Celtic for lost CL revenue.
I had a conversation with a Raith Rovers fan last night.
He stated that Sevco had been treated unfairly because there had been a precedent set ,by the way that Livingston had been treated.
Can anyone explain to me what happened to Livingston,and how Sevco’s situation differs.
He had a large listening audience ,and I want to set him and them straight.
A67
Celtic FC- the worlds most…….- I agree with all you say, a great opportunity to rotate the squad, develop our youth and if they progress cash in on our biggest assets, we are very much a footballer trading club after all, sadly. Also, figures of £9m mentioned for Ki- he is worth far more than that after his high profile Olympic performances.
The Laddy McGeary- hope you are well, did ok at the golf, 35 points, shot out the blocks starting 2-4-3 it was mediocre after that, hacked my way up the par 5, the semi rough was as tough as hell.
A smashing day though!
ghuys
logging into the site is not helping me at all….when can the site be back to normal?
HH
Marrakesh Express on 8 August, 2012 at 10:43 said:
As we all know Sevco’s history is not a matter of opinion – it’s a matter of public record.
Liquidation was implemented against Rangers on 14 June 2012. And people arguing black is white will not change anything.
having problems with layout
assume this is being fixed
Ferrytim
Sons of Erin
So say the EBT case goes againt them and the SPL rule that they did play with illegally registered players. Would the newco be liable in court if Celtic and other sued them for lost revenue? We missed out on automatic entry to the CL 3 times (when we didn’t qualify at all I believe), so thats £15m ish, we had to share the group pool a few times so say £7m ish, ticket money at say £20m ish. Thats just over £40m, plus interest to be added. Not forgetting the prize money for the SPL.
Is that a possible court case on the horizon for the hyenas?
Can Someone Explain How Rangers FC Fielded Trialists in a Cup Match?
I know it has been mentioned – but I have not seen any convincing answers yet.
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/08/08/can-someone-explain-how-rangers-fc-fielded-trialists-in-a-cup-match/
HAIL HAIL
Stephbhoy – I think you talk a lot of sense mate. If you look at how Porto work the transfer market, yet continue to have success both domestically and on a European level it shows that it is possible. There is an excellent article on Celtic Underground about this which is well worth a read.
If you consider that the McGeady money has been invested on Wanyama, Kayal, Izzy and Ki for example, the original cost of these players would now be significantly more and likely recouped if we were to sell one of them.
If the sale of Ki for instance was able to fund the purchase of Henriksen from Rosenberg and Andy Rhodes, then I would he happy with it. If it is to cover the lack of income from Europe and Sevco then I would be disgusted.
If we see improvements to the squad, then we will cope with the sale of our best players. Most of us will remember selling Dalglish and McClair for example, yet the club continue to have success afterwards.
Any CQN’ers watching the game tonight in a Linlithgow hostelry?
Andrew67
There was a number of differences between Livingston and Rangers.
1.) Rangers were in SPL, Livingston were in SFL so different orgs to dish out “punishments”.
2.) Livingston were never liquidated. Upon entering administration the liquidators were going to be called in but the SFL allowed prospective new owners to run the club for a year. Club was sold in entirety immediately.
3.) The Rangers club wasn’t sold in the same way. A new club with no membership to any league was set up and as we know were knocked back from entering SPL and had to go cap in hand to SFL who duly permitted entry.
4.) As Livingston were members of SFL, the SFL deemed they had contravened its insolvency rules despite having to pay a bond of £720k, the SFL relegated them to 3rd division.
Sevco have been treated far more favourably than any other new club. Sure they are now allowed to buy players before transfer embargo that they agreed to will take affect.
Mort
I see Sevco won its first match last night. Even though it was in the diddy round of the League Cup we should still congratulate them. It only took a spend of many times their opponents’ entire annual budget to get through to the next round.
Malaga’s downfall could accelerate La Liga’s own demise
8 August, 2012 by Lee Roden
Spanish football is many things, but simple isn’t one of them. Whether that’s in terms of the style of play or the politics behind it all, one thing you can expect from La Liga is that it’s complicated. For that reason, the way in which Malaga‘s dream has distorted into a nightmare over the course of this summer should have surprised no one, but admittedly in the case of the author, it did.
The thing is, the beautiful game in Spain has a nasty habit of taking everything you thought you knew to be true about football and turning it on its head. As naive as it may be, the majority of football fans probably like to think they adhere to the principle of building a home-grown team=good and buying a team=bad. Of course, it’s never that simple, but none the less, in general it’s for this reason that public perception has Barcelona down as one of the ‘goodies’ in world football (despite them blowing an absolute fortune on worthless signings on countless occasions), and Real Madrid as a ‘baddy’ (despite some of their greatest ever players only achieving their best football once they graced the Bernabeu). It would seem then in this context that Malaga would fall into the latter category, except in a further complication, they don’t.
Despite millions being pumped into the humble Andalusian side in an attempt to fast-track them to domestic and European glory, and despite the fact that teams with half of their resources were eventually bulldozed out of the way in Malaga’s quest for fourth place last season, there was a general feeling that, since the project began, the neutral was actually rooting for, not hoping for the downfall of Los Boquerones.
The reason comes down to the merciless dominance of Barcelona and Real Madrid. While many will rightly point out that other leagues experience a dominant two or, at best, three teams, in very few of those examples is the financial distribution to the powerful clubs in comparison to the teams in the middle-ground so lop-sided as is the case in La Liga. The fact is, short of a Qatari billionaire throwing his weight behind a smaller Spanish side, as appeared to be the case with Malaga, no team had, or has, a chance in hell of toppling Barcelona or Real Madrid in the near future.
As such, when Malaga pulled off the first stage of their grand plan ahead of schedule, finishing in a Champions League position at the end of the 2011/12 season, there was a genuine feeling of optimism that Spain’s top-flight was finally heading ever-closer to a new era of competition. Three teams competing for the biggest domestic prize still isn’t really enough, but it’s 50% more than the status-quo, and that’s a good start. A palatable prospect for the neutral observer.
It didn’t work out that way of course. Malaga should have been using this summer to strengthen their team, instead they’re using it in an attempt to simply survive. Santi Cazorla’s departure to Arsenal isn’t just a blow in terms of the loss of quality it will cause at Malaga, it’s also a symbolic blow. It turns out Malaga’s new owner was constructing nothing more than a sandcastle, and it’s about to crumble.
So too crumbles any hope of a new dawn in La Liga, and at the same time Spanish football’s day of reckoning edges ever closer. A two-team league is not a sustainable league, certainly not for a competition which aims to compete with one of the best marketed products in the world in the form of the Premier League. As the gap continues to widen, you can guarantee that, as soon as Barcelona and Real Madrid’s European performances or global reach begins to suffer as a consequence of the lack of real domestic competition, the two giants will consider their options elsewhere. Whether that’s in the form of the much ridiculed (but scarily realistic) European superleague no one knows, but it doesn’t bode well for the other teams in Spain.
The problem doesn’t just extend to Spain’s top-flight. If La Liga often looks to be ran by fools, La Segunda is almost provincial. The fact that thousands were willing to pay to see Barcelona train in second division Girona’s stadium this week, when only 700 people turned up days prior, completely free of charge, to watch the local team play a pre-season game, says a lot. I’m no expert on the English Championship, but I’ve yet to see a gate of 700 free entrants for a match in England’s second tier.
The sad thing is, Barcelona and Real Madrid could put paid to this problem whenever they like. Should the two renegotiate their TV deal for a more balanced distribution of wealth, not only would they be giving something back to a league they’ve taken so much from, but they would also benefit from the newfound level of competition that would follow. If money is all that matters, La Liga as a product would likely grow too, and in an environment where money is spread fairly to all teams involved, that’s good for everyone.
I’m not holding my breath however. Whether it’s in the form of Barcelona, who despite all their charitable endeavours, could do with being generous closer to home sometimes, or it’s Real Madrid are a little more honest about the wealth they’ve exploited, neither of the two are likely to change their deal with the devil before their hand is forced. By then it might be too late. Spare a thought for Malaga, they’re not the only team in Spain that’s going to suffer in the near future
sevco are legally dead, it is that simply, the sporting entity (club) is dead with the legal entity that is why they (newco) did not have sfa membership and had to apply to have oldco’s membership, which in intself tells you that it is a new entity.
the media and rangers newco can lay claim to anything they like. just as i can claim to have seen elvis in concert in 2010 because there was a tribute elvis in vagas. thing is, pre newco, the normal west coast man on the streets would have laughed at me and now they agree with me. would it not be better to say that new rangers is just that and have the same values and fans as the old club, we are not the same but
p.s i see chris hoye has written a will his son has to be left his gold medels and has demanded that his son’s name be placed into history books of said gold medals once he dies (as a legal entity), the athletics authority are given this their consideration!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fernando Llorente wanting out of Athletico Bilbao….
C’mon Lawwell get the finger ooot and get the deal done.
Yeah,I know we should be talking about Celtic,but I really do want to know when the huns are going to get their comeuppance,when rfc and pretendygers are gonna get ripped to shreds,and when those totally unmerited 5 ***** are gonna get unceremoniously stripped from their jerseys? When? When,exactly, is something actually going to get done about them and the filthy msm slavering all over them?
It’s sickening. It really is.
traditionalist88
11:43 on 8 August, 2012
>>>>>>>>>>
Very interesting….and how much more difficult is it becoming in Spain with their entire economy heading south at an alarming rate…
HH!
Hi folks,
Have had a good look on the net with the usual methods but can’t see any method of finding any bars in Edinburgh which may be showing the game. Does anyone know of any?
Many thanks and HH.
Mort.
Thank’s
A67