Dundee are nine points adrift at the bottom of the SPL but made a good fist of it against Celtic last night, after a rocky start. They held their own for a good 30 minutes either side of the interval. They are clearly the worst team in the league but they are a pretty decent worst team. Armageddon-SPL is strong at the bottom end.
You and I know the Celtic support, as a group and to any statistically significant level, are vastly better behaved than any supporters of any other large football club. This is a source of enormous pride but comes at a cost. Over 20 years later you will still hear about fruit thrown by one idiot, I do. This is a good thing. It means that there has been little to talk about these past 20 years.
When you benefit from the greatest reputation in football you are held to the highest standards. No one will blame Chelsea fans when we drop the ball. I’ve heard no reports of damage or injury at Dens last night, but 20 years from now someone will tell you what was said by a representative of Dundee today. This will be a good thing.
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Right enough is enuf….I’m out!!!
Night and God bless.
Well Hamiltontim if the charge is singing a sectarian song then the lad is innocent. It could be fairly described as Political and I am sure the suits at Celtic Park would prefer if the lad didn’t sing it but there is no way in the world that it is sectarian.
ThisIsTheOne
22:05 on 27 December, 2012
Paul67,
It only takes a few to spoil it for everyone.
Was reading back at the last blog, and feared another songs debate, thankfully not, but the theme is very relevant to me at this time. There was a guy who used to be the convener of the 33Club bus in Paisley in the sixties, seventies and early eighties. He followed Celtic, home and away, and in Europe (a guy who convinced his wife to morph Lisbon’67 into their honeymoon!). Probably known to older CQN’ers involved in the CSA at the time.
One day on the bus, he took exception to a few pups singin reb songs (it wasn’t his scene) and with no back-up from anyone else, called it a day. When I say called it a day, that’s exactly how strongly he felt. Never went on the bus again, listened to games on the radio, watched every Celtic game on the TV, and his love for Celtic never died.
Yesterday, sadly, he passed away. Gerry Milne R.I.P
HH
==================
The 33 Club Bus, leaving from Incle St in Paisley, was the first bus that, as a 12 year old, I first went to see Celtic with my pals. Known as the “Holy Joe” Gerry ran a tight ship and swearing, rebel tunes etc were not allowed. His “Gentlemen Gentlemen” adressess to make announcements will live on my memory forever. The Man had a presence in a way that Big Jock had.
You might recall that in the early 70’s “The Renfrew Bus” started leaving from the same street. (Just behind the “Holy Joe”) The 2 clubs were miles apart in behavioural terms and I can only imagine that a few of these lads found themselves onto “The 33”.
Sad to hear that Gerry has passed. (RIP)
celtic mac
I don’t normally interfere in play ground fights but……..
Sectarianism, according to one definition, is bigotry, discrimination or hatred arising from attaching importance to perceived differences between subdivisions within a group, such as between different denominations of a religion, class, regional or factions of a political movement.
From wiki……..
;-)
ht,
Hope so, been reading there have been a few who took an on the spot fine on the offensive behaviour act just to avoid the hassle.
Yes macjay, I would accept that.
ROLL OF HONOUR.
IMO,it is a contentious,political statement,about a politically contentious time. A means of showing support and appreciation for some very brave young men,regardless of your opinions of their motives.
To suggest it is sectarian is,however,wrong.
It will,of course be sung by those who support the cause of Irish Republicanism,and by definition these will mainly be Catholic.
However,not all….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmPbC1rYYOA&hl=en-GB&gl=GB
Wee story, scroll on by if you don’t have a minute or two.
In the 90’s after a hard week at work I’d relax over a couple of beers at The Western Bar on Great Western Road. Before that I’d have had one or two drinks with my work colleagues but always went solo to the Western. Why you may ask? Well at heart I’m a sociable person but always enjoy my own company and the chance meeting with `interesting’ individuals that just doesn’t happen when in company already. I happened upon the Western by accident but from then on I was hooked. They had characters by the hatful….Bobby Mumbles, Barry the Boxer, Big Sam, Gravedigger….but I’m going to mention just one, Robin.
Before I continue I would add that on any other day of the week I would be out with mates, girlfriends and the like. My mates couldn’t understand how I could enjoy going to the pub on my own, something they would never do. I told them that it’s good to get out of the `pack’ and see the world thru your own eyes untainted by others views and equally by the different reaction you get from being an individual in a social situation.
My routine was to buy a Herald before going in, perching on one of the stools at the bar and ordering a lager. After reading the `wee diary’, I would go to the back page and start in on the crossword. (I hated the compiler KWG by the way).
On my third or fourth time there I became aware of an older dude, grey hair, beard and glasses who always sat on the corner stool and seemed to have the same crossword routine that I had. Before long we were exchanging answers and introductions had been made. Robin became my crossword buddy. It became clear that old Robin liked an argument and always seemed to play the Devil’s advocate. We discussed music, he favouring Hendrix, me Rory Gallagher. Politics, both agreed Thatcher was evil incarnate and his fondness for CND was clear as he always wore the wee badge. There was nothing surer to set him off than by stating that we need to upgrade our nuclear arsenal. Woman, he was a Katherine Hepburn man and I was more into Kim Basinger at the time.
Whatever the discussion/argument the night always ended for Robin with the karaoke starting up at 8.30pm and “catch you next week kiddo!” as he quaffed his beer and walked off – sometimes unsteady – into the night.
We never talked about anything too personal for about six months. Crossword first, argument second. This changed one night when I asked him why he never stayed for the karaoke. I always stayed on to murder a few Rod Stewart songs – Celtic, United…etc. His response was that it offended his well tuned musical ear. I asked him what he meant and he responded, “I’m Robin Hall, I thought you knew that!”
“Who?” I replied.
“Robin Hall, White Heather Club, Jimmy MacGregor, Hogmanay show…”
“Nah” says I, “disnae ring a bell.”
To say he was surprised is an understatement, he was apoplectic. Once he had calmed down I got the full story. It was a long one. The only thing that he refused to go into was why he broke up with his long time music partner MacGregor in the early 80’s. He was more annoyed that I’d heard of Jimmy and not him!
One night I remember was that Jimmy was spotted looking in the window by both me and Robin. He never came in. That night Robin stayed for the karaoke. To my surprise he said he was going to sing. The buzz that arose in the Western that night will stay with me forever. He was obviously known by the older patrons and the expectation was palpable. When he took the mike he saluted me and after a few croaks got into his stride.
Aye he was a good chanter after all.
Not long after this I found myself sitting doing the crossword solo. This continued for a couple of weeks until I found out that Robin was found dead in his flat. His body had lain for five days before it was discovered.
That is the tragedy in my story. A man who had entertained many, died alone and undiscovered for days, with no friends or partner to care. As the year nears end I find myself looking back to friends departed and Robin is always remembered.
I always wonder what would have happened if Jimmy had crossed the threshold……
To finish, one last word about that time – 95-98 – was when I discovered that the Western Bar had a Celtic & Huns end. By God’s grace I had been sat in the Celtic End the whole time! I clearly remember that when Celtic won the ‘97/98 SLC against Dundee Utd that the Huns end sent down a bottle of champagne for my delectation and celebration. Don’t know if that would happen now or happened much back then!
AoW
Ghuys,
Stop letting the sectarian argument taky you in, they are using the new offensive behaviour act
corkcelt
Cheers.
I think many Celtic supporters would find some political anthems unacceptable.
I would be one of them.
I’m off to bed now as I’m nursing a bad cold but I append the words of the song in question and I would defy anyone to point out what is sectarian in the song. I’ll scroll back in the morning and respond.
Read the roll of honour for Ireland’s bravest men
We must be united in memory of the ten,
England you’re a monster, don’t think that you have won
We will never be defeated while Ireland has such sons.
In those dreary H-Block cages ten brave young Irishmen lay
Hungering for justice as their young lives ebbed away,
For their rights as Irish soldiers and to free their native land
They stood beside their leader – the gallant Bobby Sands.
Now they mourn Hughes in Bellaghy,
Ray McCreesh in Armagh’s hills
In those narrow streets of Derry they miss O’Hara still,
They so proudly gave their young lives to break Britannia’s hold
Their names will be remembered as history unfolds.
Through the war torn streets of Ulster the black flags did sadly sway
To salute ten Irish martyrs the bravest of the brave,
Joe McDonnell, Martin Hurson, Kevin Lynch, Kieran Doherty
They gave their lives for freedom with Thomas McElwee.
Michael Devine from Derry you were the last to die
With your nine brave companions with the martyred dead you lie
Your souls cry out “Remember, our deaths were not in vain.
Fight on and make our homeland a nation once again !”
told Mrs BT to turn TV off, yon coldplay said something about singing a rebel song..tut tut
Aow
grear story …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK8fSr_SmIU
macjay,
Out of interest what other political songs do you reckon the support might sing?
dixiebhoy
And therefore references to which should not be expressed among the broader Celtic support. No?
Celtic mac,
Is it ok to be sectarian against organisations whose ethos is overt sectarianism ?
hail hail fellow good guys , and merry christmas from often lurker\seldom poster . love this blog
Should we welcome the orange order to Celtic park, maybe applaud a wee march round the pitch ? after all the “open to all” ethos is one of our founding principals, no ?
Celtic mac
You are being extremely disingenuous and facetious as well as extremely obtuse while obfuscating on a level I have only ever seen from the BBC previously.
Why do you refuse to answer a simple question?
MWD
Neil canamalar Lennon hunskelper extrordinaire
As far as I’m aware the OO have been attending Celtic Park for years! No-one has ever been excluded from either the terraces or the team as a result of personal affiliations, religious beliefs or who they happen to be married to.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMmtBgMaF5I
Hamiltontim
From where I was sitting behind the goal the Dundee Derry Boys Banner was displayed at the opposite end of the ground probably about 120 yards away from where the majority of the Celtic support was sitting. I imagine that the majority of the so called Derry boys would congregate in and around said banner. From your description of your seating arrangements you would appear to have been sitting in close proximity to those 12 to 18 year old Dundee supporters in possession of two or three union jacks who were waving them in an antagonistic fashion towards the Celtic end
Until you enlightened us I was totally unaware of any form of racial abuse being directed towards anybody in a Celtic jersey but hey ho I was fifty yards away
From your powers of observation enlighten us to how many Celtic travelling stewards were in your vicinity and would also be able to speak to the said abuse and therefore report same to big Lawell
From big Lawells apology to Dundee for the conduct of some of our support and the failure to mention the racial abuse I assume that all the travelling stewards got ear muffs from Santa
I have never heard a sectarian song sung by the Celtic support. IMO we are in the main highly politicised , left of centre, and admire socialists and freedom fighters ala James Connelly , Che Guevara , Nelson Mandela.
We side with the oppressed people of the world , the Palestinians, the blacks in apartheid riddled South Africa, the nationalist community in Ulster.
We are all inclusive and totally bereft of sectarianism and indeed diametrically opposed to the Orc who favours the Jewish state, rule Britannia and the oppression of the Irish people’s .
We favour the underdog as we are always the underdog.
IMO last night sums up this country where a young Lhad can be arrested for singing about principled freedom fighters who died for a true cause and a squad of Dundee/Sevco fans who boo our players coz of the colour of their skin.
This is yet again an attempt by the establishment to besmirch and criminalise us .
Timmy must be getting to successful for their liking!!!
Hurting Huns !
Hail Hail
canamalar
Only if you are in Syria!
Moonbeams
You answer it!
Think Mr.Dundee security officer wants to have a long hard look at himself and his staff after last night..how nobody got killed trying to get into that stadium last night I dont know..as Canamalar has already said there was absolutely no crowd control outside that stand last night..turnstile operators panicking, refusing to open turnstiles when people had valid tickets..stewards arguing with turnstile operators etc..absolutely no idea of how to handle things at all.
That man should be thankful that he didnt have a fatality to be dealing with this morning.
Crushed nuts….,
Is that you supporting an invitation for an orange march round the pitch at Celtic park ?
Celts
I was going to say sumfin prescient and intelligient re the craic
And then I Bave decided……. No babe I’d rather speak to my howlers
Corkcelt @00:09
Totally agree nothing sectarian there but what has it got to do with Celtic playing Dundee in a Boxing Day fixture in Scotland in 2012
hope 2013 is as good as 2012 for the famous Glasgow Celtic x
Mickbhoy1888
We have a social conscience, that’s what it has to do with it!
I have a habit of saying I’m off to bed, going through my bedtime rituals then taking a final sneaky peek at the Blog and finding myself compelled to make a final post. I know its sad but here goes and this is the last one for the night, Mickbhoy if you were sitting 120 yards away from the Dundee Derry Boys how do you know they were aged 12 to 18. I am aware that there age has no relevance to the discussion but as you thought it was worth mentioning it, I just thought I’d ask the question.
First pedantry, now cryptic, never a straight answer, MSM agenda and reasoning, excuse after excuse poor argument
reilly1926, 00:01 on 28 December, 2012.
The ‘Big Jock’ reference put a smile on my face. I was only ever on the bus in the 70’s as a wean (under Gerry;s temporary care)
When I got older, Gerry would have went mad with some of the tunes I thought were acceptable, but in his head he had his own ideas about how a Celtic supporter should behave, and, hey, he was more than entitled to voice it as those huns on ESPN last night.
HH
awalkacrosstherooftops @00:35
Entered the ground at 1915 hrs and no congestion or panic at that time and I left Glasgow at 1715 hours and never passed a supporters bus on the way up so I imagine that a large majority of the Celtic support were in Dundee well before kick off time and had ample opportunity to make their way to the ground to avoid such a crush
Art of War
Great wee story…..
Your a luck man to have such fine memories….
HH
onwards and onwards hoops! wembley even?
celtic mac
I only offered the definition. The social history, individual reactions, interpretation and so forth I will leave up to others. Personally I try to avoid airing any prejudices I may have and we all have them, some worse than others. I also rely on the appropriate powers to take any action as necessary. Sectarianism is a criminal offence but I do not know if anyone was arrested for such offences at the Dundee game.
BT and Paul
I hope the message makes sense.
I had a great night with my mammy, ye all have a mammy like this one of mine.
V