SPL chief executive, Neil Doncaster, appeared on BBC Radio Scotland this evening strongly pitching the appropriateness of a Newco to be voted into the SPL. He gave a couple of examples to back up his position and used gaps in his interviewer’s understanding to paint a strong picture.
While he accepted that a Newco had never assumed a position in an elevated league in Scotland he gave two examples of it happening in England and even went as far as suggesting that “going down the Newco route” was the normal way to exit administration now.
There is a crucial difference between the examples Doncaster gave and all other examples, including Rangers – over 75% of creditors agreed to a Creditors Voluntary Arrangement.
A note of explanation first:
Football clubs are free to change their corporate structure by application to their association. This has been done my most clubs over the years, in particular in the 19th century when they went from being private clubs to incorporated limited companies. There was another wave when the PLCs arrived. Celtic went through this process in 1897 when it became a limited company and again in 1994 when it became a PLC (Celtic PLC remains the same legal entity they became in 1897 with the same company number).
This facility to change your corporate structure has never been a charter to ditch your debts. Financially distressed football clubs in England often change corporate structure when subject to a takeover. The new boss comes in with the company he used to fund his takeover (like Craig Whyte’s Wavetower) then applies to the FA to associate the club with his new company. If over 75% of creditors support a CVA, this is in order and is always granted. The old company is then usually wound up.
Back to Neil Doncaster. He gave two examples: Crystal Palace and Plymouth Argyle.
Creditors of Crystal Palace agreed a CVA proposed by CPFC 2010 in June 2010. Following this, CPFC 2010 took ownership of the club and successfully applied to assume its league share.
Mr Doncaster may have been concentrating on matters elsewhere on 6 May last year when Plymouth Argyle’s creditors agreed to a CVA. The same day Craig Whyte completed his takeover of Rangers. Following this creditors agreement, the club was bought by the Akkeron Group.
Precedent in Scotland and in England is clear: if you get the agreement of your creditors (by a CVA, for example), the football authorities have no issues. If you don’t get agreement with your creditors, you’re finished.
Before I get asked the Leeds United question one more time…. 75.2% of Leeds United’s shareholders agreed to a CVA but on the 28th and final day creditors were allowed to act, HMRC objected. The Football League used emergency provisions to authorise Leeds share transfer as the CVA had sufficient support. HMRC dropped their appeal soon thereafter.
There is little we can do about controlling the debate on radio. Neil Doncaster has pinned his colours to the mast and tonight agreed to be interviewed by a journo who is also financially heavily conflicted towards supporting a Rangers-Newco in the SPL.
Doncaster also appears to have sprung the same misinformation on the organiser of the SPL Survey, who the SPL chief was very dismissive off tonight, implying the organiser accepted his view after he explained “the facts”.
This is the bottom line for you and for Doncaster. Crystal Palace, Plymouth Argyle and Leeds United all convinced over 75% of creditors to support a CVA.
Here is a list of the teams in Scotland and England (in modern times) who failed to agree a CVA:
Chester City
Farsley Celtic
Rushden and Diamonds
Airdrieonians
Gretna
All of them dissolved. None emerged as a Newco retaining their league status (although Airdrieonians fans bought and moved Clydebank FC).
This man – Doncaster – has no right to present you or SPL clubs with a selected version of English clubs history which plays fast and loose with the most important fact of all – did 75% of creditors agree to a CVA?
Precedents are clear and 100% consistent. Get 75% of creditors on side or start supporting another football team.
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Paul67, we need the result from the FTT and we need it pronto.
Getting worried that we will not get CL games next season if UEFA have to step in and sort this sorry mess out.
Our CEO needs to make a statement.
KTF
I’m not a Celtic board basher per se but my instincts say that they will put up with whatever happens.
Just a feeling – please prove me wrong.
As I said earlier, I was offline yesterday due to my laptop screen copping an unfortunate one.
So,checking back through my e-mails,I found one from a tipping service which gave me advice for a 732 points profit,at odds of 183/1.
Which of course I missed.
Cue for a song,methinks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMx9BU9BOps
BRTH: you have nailed it. there needs to be a welle organised and motivated counter newco movement. just think of the impact it eould have if there were thousands of scottish football fans of many clubs marching in the direction of the Sfa/spl/rfa(ia) cabal?
Flannel, dross, drivel and pash.
Doncaster is a well spoken spiv in a suit. Starting at the end and walking backwards through rules and regulations to ‘convince’ the multitudes that he knows best. He actually believes it’s ‘his baw’ and he will tell the gullible punters how it is going to be.
No wonder the English get a bad name up here, he is working overtime to prove arrogance, ignorance and a total conceit of ones self are not just old clichés.
When the walking away starts in earnest, he will need to be right up front.
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan supports Kano 1000 on 1 May, 2012 at 08:36 said:
CORRECT
It is LIQUIDATION, sooner or later …….. What I don’t understand is the ‘thinking’ that the Newco is going to be playing their football at iPox ….. That is one helluvan assumption…….
It seems to me that Doncaster is talking a load of Craig Whyte when he should actually be talking Craig Whyte.
Nothing will happen without his say so.
If he plays ball then we know that he has been part of the switcheroo all along.
Time to make your move Craig Whyte.
So Scottish football is now a professional money-laundering regime where people can spend what they want, when they want and escape any consequences. A minor 10 point deduction that meant nothing in a title race they were losing anyway in no way constitutes a penalty. If Rangers are to give a minor cough and jump up off their death bed this summer with no lasting ill effects then Scottish football is over. We’ve put up with the Cadete transfer, referees giving masonic handshakes to Rangers players before cup finals, former referees speaking at after-dinner events at Ibrox boasting about throwing matches in Rangers favour, referees lying in match reports and the referees supervisor being sacked for sending an anti-catholic e-mail. I don’t think the fans will put up with this.
Craiginho
Celtic must be in a strong position to influence events . Weve been cheated out of many prizes and Millions and Millions of £s .
There must be huge porential to sue . We could bring the whole shooting match down.
Gonnae no meantion the Swiss teams getting kicked out the league and give Diddy Doncaster an idea to invite them to the cheats league.
I am quite intrigued by all this talk of incubator companies and liquidating quickly to avoid the BTC and obviously sidestep the taxes etc that are outstanding.
All these scenarios are constantly being put forward but one thought that always comes to my mind is that this is all tax evasion (taking actions to stop paying tax that is due) which is illegal and is a criminal offence.
We hear nothing of what action HMRC will take in any of these scenarios as though they are passive bystanders and will just put their hans up and say well that’s one that got away.
Why are they silent? A few reasons could be:
1. Well of course they do not comment on individual tax cases.
2. D&P have played the game to be seen on the supporters side and doing everything to save the club. However when it comes to the crunch they will have to meet their prime and only responsibility which is to the creditors. The main creditor is HMRC and if D&P who have been appointed by the court have not carried out that responsibility then they could find themselves in court fighting a claim from HMRC for negligence or collusion to evade a taxation. D&P are an international firm so they will have plenty of assets for HMRC to chase.
3.The talk in the media about the BTC not being decided and liquidating before it comes out gives the impression this case is still to be decided. However we must remember this has been decided and this is an appeal y R(IA). The tribunral may uphold or dismiss the appeal. However at this point at least a notional amount ( requested tax and known penalties) will be part of any CVA as HMRC will have presented this as a claim.
Even if the appeal is successful HMRC have already said that they will appeal so if the FTT result is known soon then any appeal would still leave it as a liability.
4. The HMRC are aware that all this posturing by D&P is only to prolong existence until the end of the season. They are aware of the strategy (may be part of it) because they know what the ultimate outcome of the endgame is liquidation. They presumably have taken account of the amount that they will get at that time and see that as a better financial outcome for them than a CVA. I believe Ticketus have taken the same view and that is why they are not partnering any bidders.
I can’t believe a Scientologist, Bill Miller, is about to buy Rangers.
This is perfect.
Miller, D&P and any other dark forces acting behind the scenes KNOW that the leadership of the SPL/SFA is at best uncertain and dithery and at worst cowardly and incompetent.
The latest article on scotslawthoughts presents a scenario in which Miller transfers RFC on or before May11th. Knowing that the SFA/SPL will not have the wherewithall to react approproately, they will turn out as ‘Rangers’ in the final game of the season on May 13th.
Aceeptance into the SPL has therefore already happened. They will be able to argue that as the SPL allowed them to play as RFC on 13th May, that acceptance has been granted and cannot be rescinded.
The SFA/SPL will have been backed into a corner where they cannot do the ‘right’ thing without having their incompetence and ditheriness highlighted for all to see.-
Poordeadking on 1 May, 2012 at 09:44 said:
I can’t believe a Scientologist, Bill Miller, is about to buy Rangers.
Neither can I.
How do scientologists stand on incubation?
The usual suspects are now joined by Lawrence Donegan in the ‘Scuddish football needs ranjurz’ club. This man works for the newspaper that did the most to expose and highlight the institutional corruption within News Group, Metropolitan Police and Westminster. No doubt he believes that football is different, and, unlike the News of the World, everything must be done to protect a corrupt and corrupting institution like ranjurz for the good of everyone else.
‘Too big to fail’, a ‘phrase which translates as ‘do what you like, when you like to whoever you like, there will be no consequences’
Ranjurz are doing everything they can to protect the institution whilst making absolutely no attempt to pay what they owe. Respected commentators are actually arguing for a ‘clean slate’ NEWCO. In other words, write off £130M debt and start again as if nothing has happened.
This is a once in a lifetime oppurtunity to remove a festering, poisonous carbuncle from the face of Scottish football. The TV deal is crap because the SPL ONLY sell four games! WGS always complained that TV was missing a trick by only showing Celtic away games live as they were missing the oppurtunity of showcasing a great stadium, a fantastic atmosphere and good football.
Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs, Motherwell, St Mirren, Dundee Utd, St Johnstone should look on the demise of ranjurz as a golden oppurtunity to win something on reasonably level playing field. Everyone knows that the current Celtic board won’t ‘do a Murray’ and try and buy success, if there is no Ranjurz then there’s no longer going to be the filleting of squads just because you beat them!
Let them go, don’t let them back. Why should the 3rd Division have to suffer the bile, the threats, the damage, the cheating, the Honest Mistakes?
Surely this incubation scenario can’t be possible , can it ?
Had Rangers (IA) not been cheating with EBT’s would we have got rid of the old board?
LB
I saw Neil Doncaster’s interview on STV last night. I thought he was slippery and slimy and came over like a politican. That’s not a compliment.
There were four important points in his interview with John McKay, who was desperate for Doncaster to confirm that the huns will be in the SPL next season.
Doncaster confused CVA, liquidation and newco several times, giving the impression that it was all much of a muchness. Whether this was deliberate or genuine ignorance is open to debate.
He talked of the SPL Board currently having the power to vote in a new club (newco or otherwise). I know Paul has stated that this has been confirmed but it’s still not my reading of the rule book which I think shows the Board acting on instruction from the clubs.
Doncaster talked about “sporting integrity being paramount”. Those were his exact words and I rewound just to be sure. But he also talked of balancing sporting integrity with commerical matters. In other words, the old we need the huns no matter what they have done line.
He also talked of this being about rules for all. Any club could go down this route, it just happens to be the huns at the moment. So we need to have rules in place. OK then. But he also spoke of waiting a week to seek clarity about the huns’ situation. Now why do that if it is just about getting the rules right – and having rules that apply equally to all?
I’m glad that no vote was taken. Uncertainty is bad for them right now. And so much could happen over the next week.
Everybody should E-Mail the SPL today to voice their disgust with the Cheif Executives ramblings.
Had a look on their website and the only contact E-Mail address is:
enquiries@scotprem.com
Keep the administrators busy on that one. If anybody has Neil Doncasters E-Mail address please post it her.
RobinBhoy
sparkleghirl on 1 May, 2012 at 09:50 said:
Poordeadking on 1 May, 2012 at 09:44 said:
I can’t believe a Scientologist, Bill Miller, is about to buy Rangers.
Neither can I.
How do scientologists stand on incubation?
——————————-
Seemingly they’re okay with it, but only after 72 hrs’ sleep deprivation with a dead-eyed Sea Org loon screaming: “WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES?” while humiliating you about your love handles and forcing you to mop an already pristine floor.
Oh, and the Incubation course costs fourteen grand.
Any idea on signing targets for the summer?
I like the sound of Jay Rodriguez – could have a similar impact to Hoops…
What’s wrong with a scientologist owning a football club??
why not just carve up the SPL the same way the leagues are in england, spain, italy etc?
you can watch every real madrid and barca game, home and away, every weekend on sky. why not just give sky, or espn on bbc alba carte blanche to broadcast any and every game? as mentioned before, i doubt hibs v st mirren would pull in smaller viewing figures than speedway or aerobics oz style.
i would assume this would lead to a more lucrative tv contract, ergo more readies.
ahhh, but if clubs live games are shown there’ll be a decrease in crowds. really, well that blows the notion the spl need rangers out the water then, as you can be assured every time they visit it’ll be on the telly. in point of fact, since we keep hearing how good the football st mirren, and st johnstone and ICT etc are playing, but erstwhile fans only see them getting gubbed on telly, doesn’t it follow that, playing all these games in front of a tv audience where they look like the peely-wally barcelona would be more likely to inspire fans to turn up?
so the only real objection seems to be the mental rearranged kick of times. really? welcome to our world. i wonder if fans will moan about reorganised kick off times next season if it’s due to their club’s involvement in the europa league.
so, if broadcasting all (potentially) SPL games would lead to a better (and more fairly distributed) tv deal, with an increased chance of european participation, decreased chance of relegation, and impoved exposure (pitchside advertising revenues would also increase) i reckon punting rangers may in fact not rip a hole in the space-time continuum after all.
QED.
Gordon_J backing Neil Lennon on 1 May, 2012 at 10:07 said:
What’s wrong with a scientologist owning a football club??
———————————–
Are you having a laugh?
Is Bill Miller is a Catholic or Prodestant Scientologist?
Paul or anyone, please clear this up in my little mind.
Is the debt proportioned among the creditors equal or simpy by the number of creditors? For example let’s say there are four creditors. If three of them agree to a CVA is that it even if the fourth creditor may be Hector who is owed the largest amount is that it or as I say is it dependent on the actual debt.
Hail Hail
KINGLuBO
Paul
Shouldn’t Neil Doncaster be considering his position. He’s the Chief Executive of the SPL – the person whom the 12 clubs look to for advice. He’s supposed to represent the best interests of all these clubs and it is surely no part of his remit to go onto the radio and deliberately mislead supporters up and down the country. Has he misled the chairmen and CEOs of the 12 clubs by his misinformation?
Does he have to resign in light of this or now at least come clean, apologise and present the accurate facts?
Hypothetically, it would be possible for someone to smooth the way and bend the rules to suit a tycoon/consortium if it involved personal financial gain for that person.
I’m just saying it’s possible and not implying that any corruption ever takes place or will take place in what may or may not be going on around us. :-)
jock tamson on 1 May, 2012 at 10:07 said:
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Agree, but both SKY and the EPL would sh1t a melon if scottish clubs were able to negotiate individual contracts, the main reason being that top 6 clubs would see just how much they’re missing out on under the current deal. The Liverpool owner has already questioned why, in his view, Liverpool and the other top clubs were subsidising Wigan et al?
As I’ve said before the SPL ONLY sell four games!
Poordeadking ,
Not at all. What does the religion of the owner(or prospective owner) have to do with anything?
Bamboo / Deekbhoy …….BOTH SPOT ON ……. Be careful SFA / SPL, be VERY careful…….or I’ll get the GB onto you….
This all actually hilarious…..what a mess RFCIA have landed Scottish Football in ……. and they’re trying to let them off lightly……. Comic book stuff (pardon the ‘stuffed’ pun)
Never mind walking away, you’d better start running away……. And I just can’t get enough …….
Did we actually ‘hammer’ them on Sunday .?…… Just seems to have gone all quiet on that front, unlike their ‘contrived’ win at iPox, which gained highlights for a week …….. LOL…..!!!!!!!!!!
KINGLUBO on 1 May, 2012 at 10:11 said:
It’s 75% of the debt owed – not 75% of the people who are owed.
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan supports Kano 1000 on 1 May, 2012 at 08:36 said:
Interesting – I was smilling over the thought of the Huns having to take shelter in a church to avoid paying debts – Imagine the chaos in their heads when being told – “right to avoid paying our debts we have to go to mass”
My thoughts on the subject are simple – pay your debts and carry on OR if you cant pay your debts take the consequences
But the real story is in the moral fiber (or lack off) of SPL Chairmen ” Do I break the moral code of sport to accomodate Rangers and maintain my revenue stream – OR do I do the right thing
I think deep down we all know the answer
I would settle for Division 3 of the English league and work from there
The SPL is riddled with disease – shame but true
Hail Hail
67ECW
Gordon_J backing Neil Lennon on 1 May, 2012 at 10:16 said:
Poordeadking ,
Not at all. What does the religion of the owner(or prospective owner) have to do with anything?
——————————–
Eh? What does Scientology have to do with religion?
Voting Rights
He stared down at the voting sheet
Wondering which box to tick
Looked up at the other eleven
Wondering which erse he should lick
He looked back down feeling desperate
Aware he had lost his voice
How he hated the other eleven
Aware that he had no choice
He lifted his pen to make his mark
They had been told what to expect
The single box said ‘No Decision’
So that’s the one he checked
CQN badge firmly placed on lapel. Big thanks to CRC, good to meet you.
Hx2
Paul67 – some figures for you from last night.
Danish TV deal – £30m a season.
Belgian TV deal $60m a season.
Swiss TV deal- £34m a season.
SPL – £16m a season.
The SPL attracts more punters through the door than any of those leagues, a higher percentage of the population attends than any of those leagues, yet this is the best our Chief Executive can get for us ?
The best attended club in any of those 3 leagues gets less than 30k through the turnstiles, there are no clubs with worldwide support.
Doncaster tries to tell us our TV deal is dependent on that mob across the city.
Doncaster is a failure, he must be pushed aside before he kills our game.
This is the man who was CEO of Norwich City as they fell from the Premiership into the 3rd tier of English Football and was then recruited for the CEO job at the SPL. He left Norwich City the season they lost £5.5m !!! Who were the other candidates !?
If the SKY TV deal is dependent on newco, and the other clubs vote in newco, then we should pull out of the SPL. We go to the SFL and offer to form a new league with them. Clubs like Dundee, Falkirk, Partick and Hamilton will provide a similar standard of opposition to most of the clubs in the SPL anyway.
I pay £30 a season to SKY/ESPN, on top of my subscriptions, in respect of football , just so I can see Celtic play. Yet a minimal amount of that money finds it way back to the SPL. If 7000 Huns can march on Hampden to threaten clubs and sponsors, including William Hill where Ralph Topping the man with the casting vote on the SPL board is CEO, then maybe it is time the rest of the fans in Scottish Football starting to flex our financial muscle.
Originalsadiesbhoy
Thanks for that. I did think that would be the case but in hunman’s case nothing would surprise me.
Come on Hector, fire the fatal shot.
KINGLuBO
oops I forgot Hail Hail