Dundee United chairman Stephen Thompson’s comments to yesterdays’ Herald are worthy of attention. During the summer, when United received a £1m bid from Rangers for David Goodwillie and Blackburn Rovers were hovering, Bank of Scotland, took an active part in the deliberations. Thompson told the Herald, “The bank wanted me to take £1.2m for him, but I said no to that. I had to stand up against the bank.”
Thompson more than doubled the money on offer for Goodwillie, allowing him to shave over £2m off their bank debt, but this exchange took place only a few months after the same bank told former Rangers chairman, Alastair Johnston, to accept the bid for the club from Motherwell born thousandaire Craig Whyte or the bank would demand same-day repayment of Rangers borrowings.
Bank of Scotland, part of Lloyds Banking Group (LBG), are significantly exposed to Scottish football and required a taxpayer bail-out two years ago, so although their interference in the running of clubs could seem overbearing, we shouldn’t be surprised at it. It’s business, and if you are employed at LBG with a responsibility to your taxpayer-shareholder, it’s necessary business.
Fortunately, Celtic are free from such interference, as are Rangers, thanks to their aforementioned benefactor, but if a liquidation event at a large club threatened income streams to the league I would be amazed if the Bank didn’t use the ‘Vote Newo FC into the SPL or repay your borrowings immediately’ line.
Stephen Thompson, who sits on the SPL board, might not have a choice on whether or not to vote a Newco FC into the SPL ahead of 30 Scottish Football League clubs, but he and his fellow board members will be able to set the tariff on any exceptional league entry to what would become a financially privileged football franchise.
12 seasons of cumulative benefit from financial mis-dealings should result in 12 seasons of penury at whatever points rate the league calculate benefit was accrued. For one scenario I have in mind, around 15 points per season sounds fair, with an expunging from the records of any trophies ‘won’ by Financial Doping.
This is measured, deliverable, is in the power of the SPL board to impose, and sets a minimum moral hazard to inhibit future mis-deeds.
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Brimmer 13:56
I think I met her too, it was in the dancing above the Apollo, i think it was Clouds.
Cider & Babycham and a pint of heavy, those were the days.
Kayal33 says:
12 January, 2012 at 13:48
starry plough says:
12 January, 2012 at 14:05
“The bars of Young Scotland”CSC ;-)
Chris
Subterranean says:
12 January, 2012 at 14:13
Even better would be the Surviours of the Young Bars CSC….quite a drink was taken in the wild 80’s…
Brimmer
Enjoy the golf tomorrow, just mind its not the winning that counts its thee gloating -)
Ktf
Mtt
Subterranean says:
12 January, 2012 at 14:08
I have mentioned this a few times, this is a very real scenario – the old Judean (wee arra) Peoples Front versus the (wee arra) Peoples Front of Judea. This would be fantastic to watch play out and is a very real possibility because as I understand it the thousandaire would not, in law, be able to front the phoenix.
Obviously whoever gets the licence holds the best hand, but a rival emerging through the ranks claiming ‘the crown’ is very possible given the newco as we would understand it would not be allowed to be called “Rangers” or to play in the traditional identical strip. (Airdrie Utd, not Airdrieonians, and no diamond strip as per the rules).
No to Newco…
Rogueleader
Is that officially how it came to light?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-468934/London-police-arrive-Ibrox-corruption-probe-gathers-pace.html
I thought that was the “bung” investigations. Was it dicovered as a biproduct of this or were they suspected before being raided like criminals?
Ragers News (STV) confirm ole Jeff Winter being investigated for anti Catholic comments, he might ask for an Edinburgh hearing?
celticinthesun – they were raided because of the bung stuff. The other stuff found on the PC’s whilst that was being investigated was just a bonus…so the story goes anyway.
saltires en sevilla says:
12 January, 2012 at 13:26
DownForSam says:
12 January, 2012 at 12:52
I went along with Clash City Bhoy and the Wolf once – Ray Wilkins’ last game for them. At lunch the waitress served up the haddock saying ‘Makes a wee change’ – ‘not to us’ we said ‘we all had fish yesterday’
celticinthesun says:
12 January, 2012 at 14:18
Rogueleader
Is that officially how it came to light?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-468934/London-police-arrive-Ibrox-corruption-probe-gathers-pace.html
I thought that was the “bung” investigations. Was it dicovered as a biproduct of this or were they suspected before being raided like criminals?
===========================
didnt they find the “side letters”?
paulsatim – that is what the jungle drums say…..
BlantyreKev
Spill mi amigo :>)
brimmer and his pals in the clubhoose
Based on Paul’s 12 seasons of cheating (could be a song in there!) I reckon that takes us back
to 1999-2000 season. Correct me if i’m wrong.
That being the case – both the Saints (us) and the sinners (them) would be on 48 championships apiece, with Celtic favourites for a 49th this season.
Orcs are currently on 54 and we are on 42!
Had to mention that as i’ve had that wee stat of theirs thrown at me a few times!!!
HH
AoW
I mentioned the other night about CD Mirandés, a team from the regionalised third division, knocking Rácing out of the Spanish cup, having earlier eliminated Villarreal.
Obviously they’ve had lots of media attention, but their manager, Carlos Pouso, has been saying some impressive things. I particularly like this quip: “I come from football played on clay pitches. I like to remind myself of that. I’m not ashamed of it.”
I like this story because it’s the anti-Rangers. David Murray and Craig Whyte are flash children of Thatcher turning up to act the big man.
We want football back.
row z \o/ (O) Mississippi Burnin Nearer Home says:
12 January, 2012 at 13:59
In a room a few weeks hence
Celtic SPL representative:
So gentleman, it looks like we have two proposals before us in relation to the application before us to join the league. Firstly, a proposal that would involve a 25 point deduction this season and automatic entry for the applicant and a second which involves a 25 point deduction for next season and a place in division 3 of football.
I know that some of you have been concerned to maximise the revenue to the league and it’s clubs and in particular maintain the current TV contract with Sky/ESPN and there seems to be some support for the notion that the first proposal would maximise that benefit to our members. We have now thoroughly discussed the merits and disadvantages of both propositions.
As we move to vote, I wanted to ensure that everyone round this table is fully aware of the implications of the selection, especially in relation to finance. Prior to this meeting the Celtic Board concluded their views and provided me instruction. I have here two sealed envelopes. The first is a letter of resignation from the SPL and the second is a letter of resignation from the SFA. I am asked to inform you that if the first proposition is successful these letters are to be immediately delivered to Neil Doncaster and Stuart Regan on the basis that the competition being run lacks integrity and that Celtic FC cannot and will not be a party to that.
It is unfortunate that such a scenario would still result in the loss of the current TV deal which the first proposition is designed to protect. Nothing would delight me more than to be able to destroy both these envelopes following this meeting rather than have then issued.
Right gentlemen; to the vote.
———————————————————————————————————————————————–
Row Z – This is the sporting integrity scenario and the stance I’d love our Club to take.
It may not be a popular view with several on here and beyond but I trust our board to do what is right for our Club and for me and thousands of others as shareholders and season-ticketholders. If for whatever reason they don’t then Football in Scotland, for me, is finished.
Paul67
I am positive they won 5 League titles during the period in question.
I assume whoever finished second to them at the time could pursue CL money for the seasons the League winners were guaranteed entry.
Nice to hear Police investigating Winter.
HH
Paul67,
I’m a bit disappointed you’ve spent so much time preparing us for the pheonix monkies, your idea that any newco will accept a punishment for oldco is to say the least a bit far fetched the taxman will see to that.
IMO the general consensusis that if this happensa fair % of the Celtic support will walk away from the game, to me this is a far more important issue than preparing for usfor an iminant plc betrayal as that IMO is the only way any newco will survive.
I’d have hoped you would be concentrating the minds of the plc on the fact that this will be their watershed, if this newco are allowed into the spl then the plc have two weapons, refusal to distribute away tickets and resignation its that simple, but then from their actions to date they have proven they have more in common with the monkeys than with the Celtic support, remmeber the plc shamed the Celtic support in europe recently, they labelled the Celtic support as bad as the monkeys in front of the world.
row z at 13:59
Excellent suggestion. I hope you don’t mind but I shared this on twitter and what with my 70 odd followers, it won’t be long before it goes global. :-)
Mort
Subterranean says:
12 January, 2012 at 14:08
‘For NewCo “Rangers” to be formed then OldCo Rangers are liquidated. Gone. No more. Hail, hail to that!
But what basis (legal, sporting precedent etc) is their for penalising NewCo “Rangers” for the crimes of OldCo Rangers?’
That’s correct.
If newco huns are allowed straight into the SPL they shouldn’t be liable to any penalty whatsoever (not being able to play in UEFA competitions wouldn’t be a penalty, just a consequence of a pre existing regulation).
To even attempt to impose a penalty on the newco huns is an admission that they are the same club. If that’s the case then logically their history, thie list of titles and cup wins must remain intact.
Celtic could of course put an end to all this nonsense at a stroke by pushing the nuclear button and announcing that if a newco huns is admitted straight into the SPL Celtic will resign from the league with immediate effect.
They won’t though. The Celtic board want the old firm to continue, it’s good for business.
Personally, think Jeff Winters has done a tremendous job in highlighting anti Catholic bigotry in Scotland.
Watch the old media trivialise his comments, and pretend they don’t know who or what he is.
Neil Canamalar While your post reads a bit like a Romanoff press release (the only word you didn’t use was Mowgli), the sentiments are in line with my own and many Celtic fans.
I smell a softening up the Celtic fans on this one. It’s a binary issue, if Celtic PLC allow this Newco to happen without threatening resignation, they have acted against the best interest of both sporting integrity and the shareholders of the business.
If SPL can’t survive without Rangers to secure the finances, it sure can’t survive without Celtic.
If I catch P67 drift correctly then I agree….there will be incredible pressure to readmit Huns to SPL…and it will come from many quarters
Media
Banks
Politicians
Other clubs
I think on CQN many confuse what they want to happen with what they truly believe will happen…
Our board need a counter lever…at least the threat of resigning from the league but how realistic is that?
If Rangers get straight back into the league with minimal penalty then what’s to stop every other debt laden club from doing the same. How can it possibly be in HBOS’s best interests to set a precedent like that?
No chance….
bsr,
thats going to be hard as he has spent a lot of time on their shows over the last few years, its good time to remind them they offered him a platform and respect.
Thinking Cap oan..
Hmmmmmmmm
If Celtic,in High Dugeon..
Resign, fae the S.P.L..
Because..the G.A. …As a “NewCo”.. are Admitted.
Then..
Here comes the Tough Part..The Sixty Four Dollah Question:
“Where wid Celtic, go?”
Kojo
Perhaps Newco, in the spirit of StJohnstone and StMirren could be called StRangers. After all, if all the current crop leave, the Newco will be just that to each other.
JJ
kojo,
english fourth division, simples really
row Z,quality stuff mate.
Kojo
I agree….the are hardly likely to be admitted anywhere else ( or they would already be there!) and I can’t see them being an itinerant globe trotting football team travelling to play clubs around the world….certainly not while players need paid…
This will be a business decision, my heart sinks to say it but I’m expecting a 10 pt deduction or the like…
Friday Gal..tells me..
it is “Dudgeon”..no “Dugeon”
So.. lets’ go wi her.
Should be… “Dudgeon”
“Ready, when You are, C.B.!”
Kojo
Jeff Winter should really be criminally charged for his comments.
Kojo says:
12 January, 2012 at 14:42
Where would we go?
Same place we were going under Bob Kelly.
The longer the wind up of Rangers takes the more I am convinced that the SPL/SFA are making plans to put them straight back in the league. The obvious club for them to buy out and bring back to life is Motherwell. In debt and with a crumbling stadium MBB is a supporter of both clubs.
Ensures SPL status too.
There must be plans afoot for some kind of entry. The newco getting straight back in is a non starter.
Celtic have to align their allies.
Hibs and Aberdeen would probably be against a Newco getting straight back in as would St Mirren. Dundee Utd may also be on our side.
Forget what the boards think fan pressure could be enough. If there was ever a time for clubs to stand together for the good of the game this is it!
LB
Would be incredible if we were allowed entry into the English Championship & the other lot quite simply….died.
My dear,dear,dear,friend..canamalar
HiYa,Pally?
Yep..The English “Blue Square” wid Be an Ideal Spot fur us.
Ah widnae object, If Celtic were admitted tae That League.
Howevahhhhhh..
as.. Our Mutual Pal..
Cultsbhoy..
Points out..
If Celtic could get oota the S.P.L..
Ah am sure the we wid Be In the “Blue Square ” League, already..
Fur.. that wid hiv bin an obvious Move.. when we wur trying tae
get into England..a few Years ago.
Ah thought that we wur Aiming too High.. when we requested an
English PREMIER LEAGUE” berth…
Kinda. Stupid, Request.. really!
Yep, the “Blue Square” or even a LOWER League..
wid be oor best bet, tae get oor fit in the English Door.
Kojo
yer pal..who likes ye aloater
Serge says:
12 January, 2012 at 14:55
I am not sure England is the answer. If you think the hatred of Celtic is bad up here wait until we are competitors down South. Our fans will be chased up and down every high street, road and street in England.
I think that is a non starter. A Euro league of some kind or a jazzed up Scottish league is the only way to go.
LB