Yesterday’s win at Fir Park was huge for Celtic’s season but we should caution against talk of a corner being turned. The team possessed the resilience (and Irish magician) to come from behind and beat the team who were second in the league, but we have been here before.
The Motherwell goal will cause Neil Lennon particular concern. After losing a goal to an early corner kick against Rennes on Thursday, it seems impossible to believe that the team switched off at another corner kick, but only Beram Kayal was alert to the threat of Motherwell taking a short corner, and he was already covering a threat.
Organisational discipline is as important as having better players to the outcome of many football games.
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Comedy show just started on STV
Let’s look at the facts, Celtic defended set pieces successfully, they won the feckin’ game! Defensive frailties? Motherwell did what they always do against Celtic; kick seven colours of Barry White out them. We rose above and beat them with football, a huge result, let’s enjoy it. We have good players and a good management team, sometimes shit happens, let’s rise above it.0
Eyes wide open,
I am in a similar place to you ref our wage bill, I suspect My opinion on wages may differ, but the idea of getting rid of dead wood , having a limited number of top earners, some inbetweeners, and then we supplement the squad with young players is bang on.
Assuming our budget was £20m
I would have 3 / 4 marquee players on £1.5 – £2 m =£6.5m
7 or 8 good club players / imports on £0.75 = £6m
5 or 6 SPl standard players on £0.3m =£2m
5 or 6 youngsters on £0.1m =£0.6 m
Add in NI , which unlike some clubs we pay, plus bonuses, you could have a decent team for £18 /£20m.
I realise you won’t get drogba for a £2m salary, but , I suspect you could get very good players on free transfers/ bosmans or guys looking to use the SPL as a stepping stone.
One of the things MoN was good at was getting guys who had gone to the wrong clubs or where the confidence was low -Vega, Varga or even Guppy , all of whom did a decent shift for us.
Snake
They tried to get me to bite but I just stuck to the facts.
They don`t like the truth.
Charlie Richmond was a disgrace yesterday.
Doom or Gloom?? Ill go for DOOM!!
setting free the bears says:
7 November, 2011 at 22:21
good post mate.
I disagree with your 3rd last and 2nd last paragraph however.
Motherwell are by no means a tall side – yet they won around 70% of the 1st headers from their corners on Sunday. They werent even utilising the running jump the way Rennes had done.
I could be wrong – but I believe the Zonal Marking system is based around a couple of man markers but men routed to 3-4 key spots inside the penalty area; the science behind the system is pro zone stats show xx% of goals from corners are headers won in the majority from the 1st header at the front post.
Front post is guarded usually by Samaras if he is playing because its not the ‘danger’ zone as such – if he is going to win a header in the area he zones – it will most likely be unchallenged.
The bigger stronger boys then take position behind Samaras at the front post, in the middle and at the far post.
The weakness is that they are already positioned where prozone tells you the goals are scored from, which leaves them no room to run in any direction. They are ultimately always going to be challenging from the ball from a standing position.
When you factor in big Dan’s at the stage of his career he has sand in his boots, and Loovens is busy trying to perfect a style of defending where he heads the ball with the back of his head – we dont have the personnel to use that system IF, IF the corners are of good enough quality.
Its absolutely no surprise the goals we lose at corner kicks are most often in Europe or against the huns.
As soon as the quality increases – we can not handle it.
You can say thats down to player this or that – you may be right, personally I think its down to either school boy type tactics or school boy enforcement and coaching of tactics.
something aint right we are in 100% in agreement with that.
Just back from the next generation game. If what was on show tonight is the future of Celtic Football Club then the future is truly green and white.
What a marvellous team, who play as a team and for each other. They pass and run, pass and run, a delight to watch. They are skillful, fast and positively bursting with enthusiasm. Each one of them is comfortable on the ball and work their socks off. I don’t know the name of the number 9 but Gary Hooper could learn a thing or two from him like work rate and running himself into the ground to close people down.
Well done to the young bhoys, I hope they manage to bring you through the ranks as a unit, if they do you will be unstoppable.
Enjoyed tonights nextgen contest at Celtic park
Celtic deserved their win, however some poor choices whilst in possession in the final third saw us fail to make the most of good opportunities in the second half
These games will be big learning experiences for our young hoops
Marseille at home and Barca away, will be terrific achievement to qualify
John Macmillhun of the Rangers Supporters Trust hasn’t got a scooby doo.
MWD
2% tax paid when it should have been 40%
Spiers opening gambit – we’re all worried about this!
Hoy GS – I’m not!
Is Spiers for real on STV tonight? Ragers go into administration and all debts wiped out? Funny!
How much did thems raise re the last share offer???
re-name ibroke?
How about Tescos?
MWD
SHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO He’s sleepin!! lol
This is four king hilarious.
STV will get banned from Hunbox.
MWD
setting free the bears says:
7 November, 2011 at 22:21
I agree with much that you say but I don’t have the same faith regarding our pre-match coaching. I put Kayal’s hesitancy down to uncertainty – in my view that hesitancy strikes at the failure of coaching drills.
Basic schoolboy defending. If the opposition try a 2 on 1 at a corner, the front post man races out. That’s the rule.
As for zonal, I can’t be bothered getting into this again. Suffice to say we have different views. You attribute goals lost to Rennes, Atl Madrid and Rangers, which were zonally defended, as reasons to stick with zonal defending.
I would look more at the second half of the Rennes game when Marcus Fraser came on. In the absence of Loovens, we abandoned zonal marking and matched up. From memory we didn’t lose another header at any corner in that second half.
HtB
Funny?? Not if your’e owed by thems.
laughable debate on STV
481
TONY WATT. He’s a moaning wee shister too.
MWD
Stone Roses to headline T in The Park next year
does anybody know if the reserves got any games this week and were are they playing many thanks.
Sometimes people need to look at the standard of players we have at the club before putting them down.
Players who need reminding who takes a corner, or what I have noticed the last couple of games, look to the bench as to how to deliver a free kick speaks volumes for the standard of player we have on the books, this is a result of the downsizing, this is a result of employing players who are not quite up to the task, not in any way a slight o the players, just the way it is, players who can play the game at the top level, and self same players that can read and think the game through cost money we don’t have or are unwilling to spend.
And then we have cheating officials to contend with, no wonder the players go awol…………
blantyretim –
I’ve got quite a strong constitution when it comes to violence/horror in film and in books. It takes a lot to make me turn away and feel physically sick.
I once read a book which covered the so-called ‘Shankhill Butchers’ and it really did turn my stomach and shook me to the core. It was the sheer randomness of it – an ordinary Catholic man or teenager on his way home from work or the pub or going out to a night shift or for a packet of cigarettes at the petrol station – snatched from the street and subjected to hours of torture and barbarity in the name of pub entertainment for a gang of cruel and merciless psychopathic killers.
That book affected me for a long time afterwards, and still haunts me from time to time.
One victim’s father was quoted as follows . . .
Nothing can bring my wee boy back and my only consolation is knowing he is safe in the arms of Jesus and the torture he suffered is no more. But what I will say is this. Some of the people who witnessed my boy’s fate and maybe were coerced into taking some small part in his torment. Those people will never be caught, but one day, when they are a lot older, they will remember what they did and what they saw, and they will suffer inner torment. They will be asking themselves – what have I done? That will be their torture until they meet their maker.
Can’t believe Grant Adam was not wearing a poppy.
Hang him I say.
MWD
setting free the bears says:
7 November, 2011 at 22:21
good post mate.
I disagree with your 3rd last and 2nd last paragraph however.
Motherwell are by no means a tall side – yet they won around 70% of the 1st headers from their corners on Sunday. They werent even utilising the running jump the way Rennes had done.
I could be wrong – but I believe the Zonal Marking system is based around a couple of man markers but men routed to 3-4 key spots inside the penalty area; the science behind the system is pro zone stats show xx% of goals from corners are headers won in the majority from the 1st header at the front post.
Front post is guarded usually by Samaras if he is playing because its not the ‘danger’ zone as such – if he is going to win a header in the area he zones – it will most likely be unchallenged.
The bigger stronger boys then take position behind Samaras at the front post, in the middle and at the far post.
The weakness is that they are already positioned where prozone tells you the goals are scored from, which leaves them no room to run in any direction. They are ultimately always going to be challenging from the ball from a standing position.
When you factor in big Dan’s at the stage of his career he has sand in his boots, and Loovens is busy trying to perfect a style of defending where he heads the ball with the back of his head – we dont have the personnel to use that system IF, IF the corners are of good enough quality.
Its absolutely no surprise the goals we lose at corner kicks are most often in Europe or against the huns.
As soon as the quality increases – we can not handle it.
You can say thats down to player this or that – you may be right, personally I think its down to either school boy type tactics or school boy enforcement and coaching of tactics.
something aint right we are in 100% in agreement with that.
all because we are trying to find ‘nuggets’
we could quite easily sell 10 players and replace them with 5 – and when they slot alongside the likes of Izaguirre, Kayal and maybe even Wanyama…
ah whats the point – we know there is no one who disagrees with us more than the ‘leadership’
timbhoy2
You said Lenny was for the offski this week, and the youths coaching staff would take over, any update would be much apreciated…….
Or you can just ignore me as usual, but I won’t let you forget tb2, what’s it to be ?
I don’t think you are a hun btw, never have done apart from the first night you posted.
SFTB
Zonal marking (IMHO) is a better system than man for man, but, it only works when you have the correct players.
Outside our two centre backs, we are a particularly small team , and even when Samaras and Wanyama play, we are still below average of most of our opponents.
The zonal game works best using a system of guys holding their zone, and others blocking / matching the opposition movement.
For us when you have 5th 9 midfielder trying to block run of 6th + hammer thrower, then the system fails. Also it fails if guys peel off from front to middle or make late runs.
Its Horses for courses, and given the lack of height in our team, I don’t see a switch making a significant difference. The only thing that may work is 6th 6 Ff charging off his line and putting the 5h!ts up the opposition.
Jsut back in frim the 19s game dylan mcgeoch paul george n joe chalmers a think he’s called the left back all very good players especially dylan hope to see a lot more of him in the 1st team
Usual stuuf yday from the mwell hammer throwers and refs allowing it to go unpuunished its a matter of time before 1 of our players will get a serious injury against these hooligansand
Had a wee chuckle at the orcs there on stv must be worried bears out ther lol just. A shame that its took the laptop so long to speak about it freely
HH
off to bed folks
!!Bada Bing!! says:
7 November, 2011 at 22:41
Stone Roses to headline T in The Park next year
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
cant say i was amused by the news
i bought two tickets for me and the wife, the plane down, a weekend hotel bill and her shopping in Manchester.. cost me a fortune.
tictalker talking tic
martybhoy59 says:
7 November, 2011 at 20:13
“Clyde have lost all sense of its orginal purpose regarding this phone in which is to promote topical debate on all things football, ”
If you listen to the promos after the travel and news etc, there is one that talks about this being your chance to have a go at the players, the fans, the pundits and the referees. It should also say ” but only when it suits us!”
Tonight was particularly poor from Keevins and Spiers and that was based on hearing only about 2 times 10 minutes sessions.
They developed a theme that Celtic supporters were complaining about the ref instead of hailing a great victory. They must think that we have forgotten all those times when they said we were only blaming the ref because we had not won!
Keevins has an excuse he is old and tired and works for /with Jim Traynor
Zonal marking
thats ok for some teams but we have to many players that jump less than there own height.
Dan and Sammy being the main culprits
tictalker talking tic
White mhen cant jump
Argument 2) We don’t need no stinking badges
I was saddened to see the ill-researched abuse being given out to SFA coaching approaches, some of it from posters who had not taken any trouble to acquaint themselves with the approach being criticised.
It is not enough to say that we hate the SFA for its Ibrox favouritsm , therefore everything they do must be bad.
Neither is it sufficient to say that we have crap coaches at Scottish clubs, a poor so-efficient for the national team, and poor players at our clubs, therefore the coaching material and approaches must be poor.
There are so many variables at play in developing a high standard of player but very low on the list is the absence of good teaching materials. We have poor pitches, bad weather, limited equipment, children with low base levels of fitness and a tension between the elite participant game and the mainstream (amateur recreational players).
Of course many of these factors were worse in the days of black ash and Mitres but we still produced world class players.The main difference then was that everybody played football, day and night, and everyone walked everywhere too. We had a vast pool of uncoached talent and many of them remained relatively uncoached when they joined clubs because coaching was frowned upon and working with a ball was seen as spoiling players.
Scotland always had great players available to them but until the new generation of coaches (Stein, Turnbull etc;) arrived they were dependant on enlightened senior pros to give them tips and hints on how a structured game should be played. The press regarded the approaches of Stein & Turnbull with suspicion and felt there was something unnatural and close to cheating in doing away with old fashioned amateur bumbling.
Two factors combined to make us change and enter our golden era (60’s to mid 80’s). One was encountering defeat from foreign teams we used to deride ( It may be hard for some to remember the shock that was felt when a Dutch national side beat Scotland 3:0 in 1966 at Hampden). The second was seeing the success achieved by Stein and Turnbull with players who had always had talent but no organisation.
So it is sad to see a similar luddite approach being taken to one of our few success areas. Our coaching materials are liked and used all over the world. Mourinho came to Largs for his badges. The Soviet bloc was miles ahead of us in coaching approaches in the 60’s but we caught up and overcame them. We have since seen developments and innovations from Brazil, Holland and even the USA, that have worked on ides gathered and collated by the much derided Roxburgh and Brown, and taken them on further.
Just because Roxburgh and Brown managed dour and unexciting, but, relatively successful, national sides, we assume their approach is equally dour and unexciting.
The materials the SFA developed in the 70’s and 80’s brought football in line with other sports (Basketball, Volleyball etc;) which had well developed teaching approaches and materials. Their approach contains many good ideas:-
small sided games to promote regular touches
ballwork based drills to promote fitness while skills develop
coaching themes that are taken into game situations
Encouraging all subs to be used so kids don’t freeze on the sidelines
De-emphasising competition so kids are not discouraged at a young age
No shouting and abuse of kids
Respect from parents on the sidelines
The fact that some of these are not adhered to has little to do with the SFA approach and has a lot to do with the Scottish male psyche.
Iki
Please don’t mention his name….. It’s Jabba the Lamb Sucking Pig…! ;)
JD
timbhoy2
You’re not getting off lightly.
In your usual stupid ramblings, stupid being a word you need to take serious cognisance of, you had Lenny out the door this week. Or was it last week.
Get a grip.
I appreciate that old age doesn’t come alone but try harder.
Graham Spiers is a complete Shereen Nanjiani – how he could possibly make comparisson to the Fergus takeover (following gross mismanagement of finances) and their illegal tax avoidance resulting in unsubstainable debt and potential losses to numerous creditors is beyond reason!
Spiers if you’re lurking – why don’t you phone John fae Coocaddens – he’s got a better grasp of the situation and could probably make a better job of writing your excuse for a column.
Moonbeams WD. \o/ Supporting Neil Lennon 100%. C’mon the hoops. says:
7 November, 2011 at 22:45
Can’t believe Grant Adam was not wearing a poppy.
Allegedly.