It will surprise no one that Uefa have charged our football club with “the displaying of an offensive banner and setting off of fireworks [sic]by fans”, this action was as inevitable as the dawn. At least some of our number believes setting off flares in a football stadium is a reasonable action and that provoking European football’s governing body is a smart thing to do.
In terms of protest, “**** Uefa” is not quite up there with Martin Luther’s Thesis or what we’ve witnessed in the Arab world this year. It’s simple rebellious behaviour, which some of us are compelled by in our teens and a few take a long time to shake off.
Forget calls to self-police, I’ve never seen it work with a football support. Ever. If you think you are going to convince anyone the folly of profane banners, flares or even IRA chanting at a football game, save your breath. Those who are up for the protest (whatever the subject is) are more likely to find your call for restraint as complicity.
This series of protest and consequence will run for years, will split the support and damage Celtic. Neither the club nor the support has the leadership to do anything about it. Copy and paste the thoughts you write on the subject, you can use them again without having to retype.
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Big Dan has the infamy of scoring Englands 2000th Goal
Zbyszek says:
19 December, 2011 at 20:17
nice gesture
am sure oldtim67 will take you up
IrresistableOfferCSC
No13 Shorts.
What your position amounts to is in essence, the best kind of Celtic fans are Irish-descended Catholics with strident Republican opinions, who will sing rebel songs at any opportunity. The rest of us are appeasers. Maybe we could distribute the season tickets according to this hierarchy? All of us untermenschen can sit in restricted view, perhaps. As an ex-Catholic atheist who had more time for John Hume than Gerry Adams, I’d probably never get into Parkhead again under your one-party state regime.
People like you need to realise that we’re an inclusive club, and that while we celebrate our Irish roots, this does not function as a proxy for Republicanism. There are many and different classes, races, nationalities, religions and – yes – political shades of opinion at Parkhead – Republican, Nationalist, don’t give a f*** and all shades in between. You presume to speak for us all, and damn anyone who disagrees with you as backsliders. This is elitist, and taking the ethnic angle implicit in your post into account, borders on the fascist. You’ve got four Irish grandparents after all – you must be a vastly better Celtic fan than those of us who have to go back a few generations, or even – surely not! – have no Irish ancestry to speak of.
As for public political opinion, are you really going to dignify the pissed-up, romanticised, bile from self-styled rebels as some acute forensic analysis of the fraught, complex and intractable issues around identity, religion and politics in Ireland and Scotland. I think “ooh aah up the RA” is so eloquent on that front, don’t you? It’s a masterpiece of concision. You know and I know that all of this is an excuse for people who fancy themselves as outsiders or victims to stick it to the Man, the favourite past-time of the eternal 15 year old. When political debate degenerates to this level, it becomes naked tribalism. I think we ought to have a bit more class than that.
I’m asking you and your friends to please take your RA songs and chants to the nearest Republican pub or club. There you can be sure you can actually speak – or sing – for all present. I can assure you that that is most assuredly not the case at Parkhead.
Uthere:
Didn’t think it would be so quick before insulting language would be used to describe people who sing republican songs.
That’s super fast; well done!
I might suggest that your like take yourselves to the nearest Conservative and Unionist Club where your political ‘neutrality’ will be welcomed with open arms (just don’t wear green)…
:-))))
saltires en sevilla says:
19 December, 2011 at 20:04
I just can’t get a dream out my head regards certain peepil.
What if I owned a football club and the fans kept getting me into trouble ,not domestically (that was sorted )but on the wider stage
,say for sectarian ,racist behaviour and your rivals were getting plaudits (like the club you mentioned earlier ).Now it’s in my interests to make everyone think they were as bad as my fans (as mines would not change )what would I do.
rules are
No sectarian singing
No racist singing
No political singing
Now I could not get my rivals on the first two as the did not do either but what about the third .
What if my rivals had a history with a certain group ,say ……(the armed forces ) could I exploit this to push my rivals buttons .to meet my needs .
I could play up my support for them and promote this and see if I could get my allies to make a symbol more prominent at a certain time of year .My fans would be seen as supporting my nation but certain people in my rivals support would never be seen to do the same ,in fact the would more than certainly rebel against it .Win win for me .
That would certainly spoil any chances of my rivals moving out of the league we shared to maybe a neighbouring league
Then I could get another ally to bring the resulting rebels to the attention of the people who have been punishing my club strengthening my argument that we are one in the same .
I don’t know how the rest of the dream would turn out ,as I woke up but the last thing I remember I was thinking as long as my rivals fans were fighting among themselves the more chance I had of my plan succeeding
hail hail
Moonbeams WD
You think your post is controversial? Don’t think so.
CQN is holidays on Kamchatka these days.
People are telling :Paul67″ it’s worst article I have ever read, when he tells how he sees things with support.
Many say :It was St.Jonstone’s player fault, when I see that Majstorovic was agressor in that foul.
Get well soon Dan.
People say: yeah, maybe the banner was stupd, but look: others are worse than us.
ETC, ETC.
I know.
Blessing is not a crime. Vawing a flag is great thing.
But.
Not shaking hand with those who beat in in the game is stupd, ridiculous and many more things.
Slagging teammate during the game, going to him with fists is awful.
I have scarf with :Oh, the Holy Goly, he hates the Huns but I keep it in wardrobe. Whe I go the church I have better scarf to wear.
*know* obviously.
A very strange development for an organisation to take, whose main objective is to organise a football league competition.
Árd Macha
Before 5 yards of dogs (Basset Hunts) take me for walk.
People say there is nothing wrong in singing Celtic Syphony.
I would ask the question: Why people need to sing Celtic Symphony if “Four Leaf Clover” is great, wonderful song for crowd?
I heard both songs and must say that don’t like Celtic Symphony but not becouse Up. Ra.
This is like telling that Bay City Rollers were the best Rock group of all time who changed the music forever.
I think I can adapt Minty Moonbeams` famous fivers/tenners quote for the Whyte regime and the present day circumstances:-
“For every 5 points my team is deducted for going into administration, my friends in the establishment will ensure Celtic are deducted 10 points for their fans` singing/ banners/ offensive displays of aggressive greenery
WestWalesCelt @ 20.41
You accuse Uthere of using insulting language but say nothing about the person he was replying to. That person accused everyone who doesn’t share his opinions of being “appeasers”.
You then make assumptions about Uthere’s politics for which you have no evidence. Even if he is a conservative, so what? I am far from being a conservative myself but have to accept that even the Celtic support includes quite a few, if CQN is anything to go by.
Our club is being subjected to an unprecedented propaganda campaign at the moment. It’s a time for Celtic supporters to unite and get behind the team.
Kittoch- thanks for email,the “a” and the “s” on the keyboard are in the wrong place on the keyboard! Gave it back today, hope to have that microsoft package this week.
Saltires,
What was the marcus og view?
++++++++++++++++++++++
he concurs that UEFA/Europa final, supporters experience, wins every time. Your point about 2 finals is well made, …..since Lisbon.
Puts everything into perspective.
We need oot of this Micky Mouse SPL, pronto.
Mr Z
Ok. This is my last word.
I was not looking to be controversial. I was stating my opinion the best way I could using an analogy most if not all people would understand. Although I did caveat that I did so in the knowledge that it would upset true Christians. I just couldn’t think of a better analogy.
I have also previously stated that I’d prefer if the RA add on’s were stopped and that the Banner, foolish at worst, did not happen. But we all know these are misdomeanors in comparison to the Huns.
Ifi offended you I do apologise but the analogy still stands.
MWD
Zbyszek says 19 December, 2011 at
rhyming slang for dogs is so last year :>
Bada bing
How do they get the keys on the wrong way, they are done like tiles on a backing, is that why there was a wee bargain in the offing
West Wales Celt, you make my point for me.
My perceived “neutrality” – in fact, just not being a Republican – makes me persona non grata at Parkhead, as far as you’re concerned. I’m really sorry that I’m such a disappointment to you as a Celtic fan. I must try to live up to your arbitrary and self-serving criteria better.
In any case, all I want is for you guys to stop singing these songs at games. Your political beliefs are yours. They’re not mine, nor many others at Parkhead – and the assumption that we must share them or be judged wanting is really, really not on.
Most of my serious Republican friends (mainly from Derry and Belfast) don’t like these songs being sung at Parkhead any more than I do, and despair at the chanting. That’s because they take it seriously, not just as an opportunity to act the rebel.
Zbyszek says:
19 December, 2011 at 20:49
You’ve over stepped the mark take this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytii7-bUxuk
Dont know if this has been mentioned but Chris Boyd is available on freedom of contract in January what is the chance of the Poundland team selling Jelavic and replaceing him with Boyd. H.H.
79caps:
Only Uthere felt the need to swear or am I wrong?
I make no presumptions about his politics.
I’m guilty of no more than sarcasm.
I trust this is not yet a crime, even in Scotland…
St Pauli game tonight
https://twitter.com/#!/FACKilltheBill/status/148861232802308096/photo/1
Paul is right – there is no fixing this schism.
Our Board should have defended us when others were lying about us etc but they didnt and they have cut us adrift – deliberately.
There are people I know who I NEVER thought would give up season books etc – nearly to a man they are.
We have been betrayed.
Paladin I read your post – dont you realise that the corporate celtic in place now are not our celtic – the pursuit of money means all that we were has been thrown out.
Meanwhile Rangers fans sing what they like at Hibs – the guy who is the coppers union admits this – and nothing happens.
The Board have got the balls to take on those railing against us – so its open season on celtic fans – and what do our board do – Join in!!
The club is dying as sure as Rangers are – we must abandon the board and protest against the corruption of law and changes by the SPL designed specifically to attack Celtic.
This is the most serious attack on the club by this bigoted country – it seems that soon we may hear “come in agent lawwell – job done”
What a sad state of affairs.
I am going to see my SNP MSP later this week and challenge him – I am going to make his hour with me the most uncomfortable hour of his life.
NA
saltires en sevilla
“nowhere near enough for a club of our pedigree”
Got me thinking did that line.
Let’s take the Champions League.
Since it began there have been 56 finals, and the countries winning it have been few and far between.
It has been dominated by the big euro leagues.
Spain
Italy
England
Germany
France surprisingly has only won it once, Marseille in 1991
Two other countries, not from the big leagues have done well
Holland and Portugal, the Dutch have been inovators in the game, and the Portugese have had a fair few imports from South America to thank for their sucesses.
Of those 56 finals, only three [3] other countries have won the trophy
Scotland, who else
Yugoslavia- Red Star
Romania- Steaua Buchuresti
And only five [5] other countries have contested the final
Greece- once
Belgium- once
Sweeden- once
Yugoslavia-once
Scotland- who else again
So, IMHO, Celtic have equiped themselfs pretty well, infact we have done good all things considered :>)
Well done Kenny Shiels on Shortbread. He made the point that the fans at Perth yesterday were magnificent but that no comment was being made pointing up the good stuff. BBC reaction was no comment, totally ignore and move on to net subject – standing areas
Combined with his support for Neill last season I have to say he is a manager I quite like.
Also one whose Irish background did not seem to cause a problem for our campaigning media upon his appointment unlike Pat Fenlon but that’s not Shiels’s fault.
Uthere:
You misunderstand.
You have my absolute support to express any political views at Parkhead that you wish (sectarian and racist views notwithstanding).
I don’t think you less of a Celtic fan for not wishing to express republican views.
I totally support your right not to do so. I also totally support your right to express (acceptable – see previous line) political views of your own; sing loud, chant away, go for it!
The problem is you would deny republicans the same courtesy would you not?
13 shorts/Uthere,
are you a double act
13 shorts
I’m a much better Celtic supporter than you
Uthere
13 did say it was his opinion, not that of any majority
singing reb songs in the pub can be deemed on the way to the game
DUSHANBE BHILLY BHOY says:
19 December, 2011 at 20:52
agreed out of sphell …might need to set up our own league and invite others to join us
marcus og is a switched on switch-
we have been kindred spirits since some wee scrote nicked our brand new wrangler jaickets from our supporters bus at firhill a long, long. long time ago
there are some things not even wee scrotes should deprive ye of
wee scrotes have nae class sometimes
HH
M
WestWalesCelt
You make no presumptions about his politics? Then why tell him to go the nearest Conservative club?
I suggest you read again the “contribution” of The No. 13 Shorts, which he has kindly repeated I don’t know how many times on this thread, as if it’s some highly significant piece of political discourse. It’s full of meaningless verbiage like ‘those of an Irish political bent” (what’s that?) and “a genuine living/breathing Republican mindset” (perhaps someone could explain to me the difference between a Republican mindset and a “living/breathing” Republican mindset).
Mr No. 13 Shorts then says that going to Celtic Park is the only realistic opportunity he has to express “a distasteful political opinion”.
So Celtic Park should be a place where people, in the anonymity of the crowd, can safely express opinions that they are afraid to express elsewhere? And this man thinks he is somehow a great freedom fighter? I leave you to work out what he really is.
Paul
Do you think you should follow our esteem CEO and ban people for their swearing on this site.Same word same outcome?Slan
‘Rebellious behaviour will last for years. If I read Paul’s message to-day right,
I found it pessimistic depressing and exaggerated.If by ‘rebellious behaviour’ he meant ‘the illicit chanting’ and ‘daft banner’ of our lunatic fringe, it will only last for years if we the decent majority allow it to. I reckon that at least 90% of Celtic fans belong to ‘the decent majority’. I am talking about the 80,000 who came from all over the world to cheer their team all the way at Seville even though they lost the final; the fans who have earned tributes for their behaviour from Mayors and Police Chiefs all over Europe; fans who have won awards for their behaviour from F.I.F.A. and U.E.F.A.; the fans who do not sing I.R.A.chants or mount stupid banners.
I watched my first Celtic game in 1947 and have been a proud Celtic supporter ever since. I am sure I am not alone in saying that I will not stand back and let the ‘lunatic fringe’ set the standards for our club and let them drag this great club further into the mire. It is for the decent majority to make sure that this does not happen.
Árd Macha says:
19 December, 2011 at 20:20
Interesting move on the part of the SPL, but maybe, just maybe our board are playing a clever little game that will ensure the noose is tightened around our erstwhile rivals without them realising a trap has been set. Slowly, slowly, catchy monkey!
Fact 1: CFC have an issue with a few hundred supporters who, rightly or wrongly, express support for a terrorist organisation
Fact 2: RFC have an issue with tens of thousands of supporters who, rightly or wrongly, express support for a terrorist organisation
SPL should rightly take action on any mention of a proscribed organisation under their rules.
Outcome 1: CFC take their medicine for this behaviour and swiftly deal with a few hundred supporters, no major impact on the finances, problem sorted!
Outcome 2: RFC must act on it, they will need to ban thousands of supporters, bottom line – major impact on their finances!
Maybe I credit our board with the ability to utilise a litte machiavellian enterprise, then again maybe not!
Vaultbhoy
Vmhan,are you looking in?
79caps:
You don’t like a bit of sarcasm do you?
Would it help if I apologise for implying Uthere might be a bit of a tory?
Very well, I apologise for both my sarcasm and my implication.
Nevertheless, Uthere’s post made it clear that as republican songs did not represent the totality of the Parkhead crowd that meant they should be restricted to more appropriate venues.
Fairy snuff say I.
I’m not convinced any one political view can be said to represent the majority of the Parkhead crowd but it seems that only the republican variant is, by this definition, unacceptable.
Now this seems unfair to me. Does it not to you?
You will have seen my recent post to Uthere where I invite him to express his political views in song, chant or banner but simply ask that he does not single out one particular viewpoint for the banning thereof.
What is it about this position that you find so unreasonable?
I look forward to hearing further…
THE EXILED TIM says:
19 December, 2011 at 21:00
good stuff- when you put it like that it does not seem bad at all for a team from a wee country :-)
mebbes I was thinking about the way we started off since first competing v Valencia in 1962 (year I was born) we were in semis: ’64, ’66, ’67 (plus final) ’70 (plus final) then ’72 and ’74
then zilch until QF in ’80 and finally 23 years later Sevilla Final
..just dizny feel that we have done well enough for the size of club – when you consider the feyenoords and portos and success they have had …even spurs have won 2 trophies and they have not managed a league win since 1961/2
achhh – I just hanker after those glory days of my yoof when the hoops were lauded for playing fitba the Glasgow Celtic way
HH
M
Zbyszek.I hope you understand the language?.
*Zbyszek*. Wdzięczności za propozycję ale wątpię jeżeli który jest możliwy,JA może odwiedzać was znowu ale JA będzie musiał czekać i widzą,Moje życie (długotrwałość) jest rządzone przez moje zdrowie te dni. JA co wy będziecie otrzymywać (dostawać; rozumieć) niewiele prośby (zapotrzebowanie) odkrycie rozmieszczenie (przystosowanie) dla Irlandzkich stronników które będą stać na czele do Polski dla piłkarskiego przyszłego roku,Wy mieliście spotykać (wykonywać; napotykać) niewiele (niewielka ilość; niedużo),JA nie będzie udawać się (idący; wybierający się) jak (ponieważ) Szkocja nie kwalifikował. Cała moja miłość też wy i rodzina,mam nadzieję rzeczy być dobrze z wami. oznaczam (zamierzać; mieć na myśli) co mówię (przemawiać) oglądanie (traktowanie) nie wracający (powrót) do piłki nożnej,JA będzie wracać jeżeli pokład (komisja) broni Celtycki.
Tell me the GB had nothing to with kicking Celtic in the ghoolies with that banner…….I luv the GB…!!!!
Tell me our Board are going to appeal against any possible fine etc……..
Tick Tock
coorslad says:
19 December, 2011 at 21:18
Vmhan,are you looking in?
……….
Aye.
V
Sheildmuir,
My god mate,you`re pre me.
`53 myself.
Be prepared to be roundly abused by the hard core politicisers whose agenda is simple.
Entryism.
They leach themselves to Celtic because they have newhere else to go.
The civilised world has rejected their primitive politics because……….they didnae work.
ANYWHERE.
The big question is:to what extent is C.Q.N. responsible for this politicisation?
And ,what is C.Q.N. prepared to do about it?
Vmhan,got the ticket today in the post,its on its way to your goodself,happy holidays..have the celebrations started yet?