I bought my first tranche of Celtic shares in 1994 but when Fergus offered his shares to the fans (1999?) I was not in a position take up the offer. Few of us did, as a consequence, Fergus sold most of his holding to Dermot Desmond.
It was a pity, as I liked the democratic feel of wider share ownership. Subsequently, when the club needed money in 2001 and 2005, share offers were not taken up widely by the support, so perhaps share concentration was always likely. When the club itself was in jeopardy the support dug deep, Fergus famously commenting on how those queuing up in 1994 to pay money for Celtic shares, clearly had little income. The subsequent share issues were about rebuilding the squad and training complex, less emotive topics.
Still, it is important to me to be a shareholder, I know many of us feel the same. We can call the executive to account and, as there are many thousands of us, we represent with wider support, immune from fads.
The Trust yesterday proposed shares are issued instead of refunds to season ticket holders, who were unable to attend in person this season. In case it needs said, while we received rights to view games online, many families earned no incremental benefit for additional season tickets held in the same household. Some families, including mine, paid for several tickets to get the exactly same service as a family with one ticket. And on top of everything else, there was the football……
Unlike others, Celtic chose to offer a partial refund on tickets for last season to compensate for games not played. That is not going to happen this season for a variety of reasons. For a start, if the season completed, a refund (optional or otherwise) would not be due. Most significantly, they spent the money. Our ticket revenue is not just to maintain access to the stadium, it pays for Odsonne and his pals. I doubt a single club in Europe will offer refunds – and if I’m being brutally honest with you, the only money I want to see leaving the club is for a new manager and players.
I suspect the Trust feel the same, which is no doubt why they proposed a share issue. It is a question worth asking – and it keeps wider share ownership on the agenda. I can also imagine the next shareholders meeting if shares were issued on a voluntary basis! Anyway, if you can afford it, buy shares, own a piece of Celtic (that will forever unlikely be diluted to compensate for poor value from the season ticket).
The Scottish Government is the recipient of an angry letter from Newco on social distancing measures, or the lack thereof. “When you swim with the sharks”, springs to mind. They are a social and health risk to the country. Put them back in their box at the first opportunity, Celtic. It was correct the club Tweeted last night that they are not half of anything, in reference to their bus supplier’s “half of the Old Firm” comment. A whole lot more clarity on this and related matters would be appreciated. If the bus suppliers gets away with dragging our name into social unrest elsewhere, what damage could the sanitaryware company do? A line has been crossed. There will be no end to it Celtic – unless you put an end to it……
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SPIDEY101
The Portugese seem go have a conveyor belt of midfield talent..at the moment Fernandez at Man U is having an unbelievable season..but one to look out for is Sergio Oliveira..watched him last night for Porto v Juve..thought he was brilliant.
Rui Costa was a great midfielder too
CHAIRBHOY on 10TH MARCH 2021 9:54 PM
Yup – explained this all to Wee BGFC when out a drive today as a matter of fact.
So – for the record, there are three entities of interest – and please be careful about the names which were deliberately used to divert those not paying – or not wishing to pay – attention:
1) THE RANGERS FOOTBALL CLUB P.L.C. (27 May 1899 – 31 Jul 2012 – Company number SC004276) It was renamed as RFC 2012 P.L.C. on 31 July 2012 to fool idiots.
This is the Rangers we all grew up not being supporters of – the winner of 54 titles, the club with an apartheid no-Catholic policy for most of its existence.
During the period since ‘Rangers’ were formed, there was no separation of ‘Rangers the Club’ and ‘Rangers the Company’ – this is a fabrication and a fantasy. They were one and the same (formed in 1882 as a club and incorporated into a company in 1899).
Rangers – as was – are dead – end of story.
2) RANGERS FOOTBALL P.L.C. (established on 16 November 2012 – Company number SC437060).
It was renamed as RANGERS INTERNATIONAL FOOTBALL CLUB PLC on 27 November 2012.
This is the company that was established in November 2012 to operate the new club (see below – initially named as SEVCO SCOTLAND LIMITED)
3) SEVCO SCOTLAND LIMITED (established 29 May 2012 – Company number SC425159).
It was renamed as The Rangers Football Club Limited on 31 Jul 2012.
It is listed as carrying out ‘Activities of a sports club’.
This is the NEW football club currently operating out of Ibrox and established from the component parts purchased from the Administrators of, and in the wake of the demise of, the ‘real Rangers’ (THE RANGERS FOOTBALL CLUB P.L.C. – now know as RFC 2012 P.L.C. in liquidation)
It is also what many willfully ignorant, or misinformed, people now regard as being the same club as the one that is currently in liquidation (i.e., RFC 2012 P.L.C. in liquidation).
It is probably helpful to view the entities in the numerical order of Companies House registration:
Rangers – the original Evil Empire
* Company number SC004276 – incorporated in May 1899 : The original Rangers – now in liquidation – they have ceased to be.
The New Pretendy Rangers
* Company number SC425159 – incorporated in May 2012 : SEVCO SCOTLAND LIMITED – the new ‘Rangers’ football team / club
* Company number SC437060 – incorporated in Nov 2012 : RANGERS FOOTBALL P.L.C. – the new ‘Rangers’ company that runs the new ‘Rangers’ football team / club
Hope this helps clarify.
HH
BGFC
Drew – you’re right the Portuguese do seem to produce the midfielders – Rui Costa; Sousa: Fernandes; Bernardo Silva; Tiago and Maniche from the Porto side that beat us (and Deco though he was Brazilian); Neves and Moutinho at Wolves! All quality.
It’s thus really bizarre that the only player our scouts seem to have identified there was one Amido Balde 🤦♂️
Martim1980
re juve.
that del piero turn at the corner flag left Alec Cleland lost,wandering about Turin for a few years.
hh
Drew – Oliviera only signed a new deal recently. Up until January he was available on a Bosman (if we were organised enough to do those sorts of deals)
ERNIE LYNCH @ 10:45 PM,
Now, unless there was a contract between Celtic and Rangers around the old firm trademark that states some. insolvency clause the I can’t see that being the case.
Also an insolvency clause in this case would have been pointless – it Celtic had ceased to be or Rangers had ceased to be due to an insolvency event, then by definition the old firm ceases to be. Sure, there may be some historical worth in the “old firm” trade mark but nothing compared to the value of the brand with both Clubs competing.
Yet the fact remains, even though the legitimacy is disputed, that Sevco 5088 had preferred bidder status and no one could bid on any separate part of the assets.
Yes, The Rangers Football Club as an official name changed…
To…
The Rangers Football Club Ltd
Then
The Rangers Football Club PLC
Then Sevco Scotland Ltdchanged it’s name to
The Rangers Football Club Ltd
It is now
The Rangers Football Club Ltd
A wholly owned subsidiary of Rangers International Football Club PLC
BIG GEORGES FAN CLUB @ 11:09 PM,
Good to hear from you… Hope all’s well in the People’s Republic of Plains.
Thanks for the dates, been a long day and couldn’t be a$$Ed to look them up.
Although I think they may have started on 1872;)
Hail Hail
AT- that turn – incredible! Bettered only by a Di Canio turn against Hearts (I think) and Lino trapping the ball with his backside!
Correction – WEE BGFC telt me it was 1872 they were formed
I said I didn’t give a sh!t
But in the interest of accuracy
HH
BGFC
Lubo even
Jinkyredstar
On twitter gonzagabd posted picture datemarked on trfc photographs
the tweet was quickly taken down
https://twitter.com/13_azzuri/status/1369403263427239943?s=19
hh
SPIDEY101
Scored 2 and always looking to create either with a pass or running at them.Wonder why he was almost away on a Bosman? Bit of a character is he?
from easy jambo on sfm
The SPFL’s annual report to 31 May 2019 has just been published by Companies House. It will no doubt be of interest to many posters that the highest paid director (Neil Doncaster?) received a healthy pay rise of £91k taking his remuneration for the year up to £388k. That is despite the SPFL’s total revenue falling by more than £1.1m from the previous year.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC175364/filing-history
hh
BGFC
how come they celebrated their centenary in 73? lol…s’awright mate as you say who cares lol
hh
LAXALT
Steve Clark would be underwhelming and hardly inspirational for Celtic fans. I think this would be reflected in season book uptake.
INIQUITOUSIV on 10TH MARCH 2021 11:43 PM
I think Steve Clarke is a decent coach but his teams are set up to be hard to beat and stifle more talented opposition. I’m not convinced how good he’d be at setting up a team to play on the front foot and breaking down packed defences.
I don’t think we’d lose many under him and might even do well in Europe but I can see lots of points dropped in dour draws at home where we struggle to break down teams sitting in.
Not for me.
Chairbhoy @ 9:54 pm
I don’t know what you think I was missing and what I needed to be educated on but your post did not do it.
The only fact I learned was that, as preferred bidder, Sevco got to buy a basket of assets. SInce they now claim that this basket contained all trophies and titles and registered trademarks but no liabilities or debts, I’d assume there is a written record somewhere outlining what this basket consists of. Is there? Have you seen it?
The bottom line, taken from your own account is that Celtic could do nothing about it and did, in fact, do nothing to aid or hinder it. The prefered bidders and the administrators were the only ones to put this fix in, correct? The rest of Scottish society, including Celtic may have raised insufficient objections and may now be happy to let it slide (and more- now that villains are being compensated for their wrongdoing) but they did not obviously collude or facilitate.
If the new club were fully entitled to a continued half share, we could not object. Yet we have continued to preserve our half of the trade mark without ever wishing to use it in any official capacity as an identifier of Celtic FC.
What more do you think Celtic should have done about this trademark?
BGFC
According to report I am looking at it states that RANGERS INTERNATIONAL FOOTBALL CLUB PLC
Company number: SC437060
Previous company names
RANGEŔS FOOTBALL PLC
Has this been changed (again) or am I reading a different report.
SEVCO Scotland had to get a special licence to play against Brechin
Good morning cqn from a wet and cold Garngad
The only win scenario for us on the 21st apart from winning the game is for NONE of our fans to turn up at all. Let the Orcs turn up and the Police would have to act this time.
Let them batter the living daylights out of each other.
Strathclydes finest would have to act as they have known about this for weeks before the game.
Or if I was top cop get on the front foot, a ring of officers around celtic park get intelligence as to were Huns are meeting and either contain or disperse.
Let me be quite clear none of our fans should be gathering on masse at all during these trying times.
Make no mistake our board have put us in this position with peelywally 1 line statements.
They should be telling everyone that wants to listen how last week was deplorable but no Celtic fans were there. Then be saying it is down to the Police to make sure there are no crowds during a pandemic and between them, the Government and SFA,SPFL they should decide what punishment the club who these fans were supporting should receive.
The authorities are waiting for our fans to do something so thet do not have to punish that mob, I would actually come out and say that and bat the ball back into their court.
Then urge our fans not to come out at all.
D :)
Neil Lennon as DOF or back in some capacity.
Deary, Deary me.
If that is forward planning I give up.
Honestly what the feck have our board being doing for the past 6 or 7 months when Neil and JK lost us the league and put us out 3 cup competitions.
Jeezo
D :)
The only way to stop Huns gathering again or any supporters is to hurt the club they support.
In other words dock Rangers points for last weekend’s despicable scenes of players encouraging fans and thus hordes thinking it’s fine come on down its z party.
Dock them 10 or 15 points right now and make an example and say if anymore instances then another 10 or 15 point deduction every time.
That will guarantee no more mass gatherings.
They wont do that or any punishment until after the game on 21st hoping Celtic fans turn up.
D :)
SFtBs @ 12:48 AM,
“I don’t know what you think I was missing and what I needed to be educated on but your post did not do it.”
Fair enough, however there has been screeds written about it and if you are unwilling or unable to understand what went on during “the great footballing swindle” then that is what it is.
However what did happen and I assure you it did, was the Footballing equivalent of a Frankenstien monster was created.
It was created in the main to ensure that the bigot bucks kept coming in.
The current financial doping of Rangers Football Club to ensure they are competitive domestically and in Europe is a direct result of this.
The worst aspects of the Rangers support given new vigour and carte blanch is a direct result of this.
A new invigorated “hate” is on the streets in Glasgow and have no doubts Celtic Plc played their part in it’s creation.
“SInce they now claim that this basket contained all trophies and titles and registered trademarks but no liabilities or debts, I’d assume there is a written record somewhere outlining what this basket consists of. Is there? Have you seen it?
Yes there is but you are conflating several things here.
Allowing The Rangers Football Club to phoenix from oldco to newco is not I believe in itself illegal, insolvency law is a minefield navigated by “experts”, we may feel allowing Companies to drop debt and continue in a different form but essentially the same, to be immoral – yet the fact remains it is done every business day.
The buying, selling and transferring of intellectual property is likewise the domain of “experts” but the likes of, patents, copyrights, “devices”, trademarks etc are legitimate and often change hands especially in an insolvency event.
As an aside – a list of the “basket of assets” will of course exist. Whether selling the football Club in this way was the best value for creditors or whether it would have given more value to either have a different bidding format or broke the football Club up and sell the parts is a matter of contention and I believe legal action. But whatever the outcome Newco Rangers will be little effected.
We now come to the nub of the issue…
… The claim on the trophies and titles. This has two aspects to it.
Firstly were all those trophies and titles won legitimately. In my opinion no, they were not, titles and trophies that were won when the Club were caught in wrong doing should have been subject to proper investigation and disciplinary procedures and those titles stripped as a minimum. The illigitamate issuing of the Uefa licence in 2011 should also have been vigorously pursued.
The second aspect, can a Club transfer their trophies and titles to a new Club?
No, it is clear in the SFA’s articles of association that this is forbidden.
The Footballing authorities (with the blessing of the other Football Clubs, especially Celtic) used certain devices to by-pass and override rules and regulations such as the transfer of Club licences and Club ownership rules.
This was cemented by the 5 way agreement and given “legitimacy” by the SPL’s sham LNS Commission. For me neither would withstand a robust legal challenge (which is just one reason Celtic didn’t officially challenge them).
The “never disturb your enemy while they are making a mistake” rouse, how they must have been laughing at us suckers.
FESS19 @ 2:57 AM,
Following on from my response to SFtBs above…
… The transfer of the original Rangers licence from oldco to newco could only take place once the 5 way agreement and associated shams had been completed.
When newco Rangers played Brechin the agreements hadn’t been finalised.
The main reason for this delay was the fact that football supporters had got wind of some elements of this sham. Newco Rangers were supposed to be parachuted into the SPL. Supporters of several Clubs, most notably Aberdeen refused to buy season tickets on this basis.
The SPL route was closed to newco Rangers and the agreement had to be renegotiated – hence a temporary licence was issues, again outwith the SFA rules.
————————————————-
So for clarity.
Oldco Rangers have won 54 (actually 53.5) top division league titles.
Newco Rangers have won one top division league title.
The current Rangers is a continuation (not the same Club) so I’ll let you ghuys do the math…
… 54 + 1 = X
Now maybe you understand why so many of us were so get up by this sham and Celtic PLC being a part of it.
Now maybe you’ll understand why Auldheid et al were so passionate and active to get something done about the cheating.
Is the 55, is George Square palpable enough for you ghuys to understand the repercussions.
YoureapwhatyousowCSC
Hail Hail
Get up = Het up
Drew – not sure why he almost left but I assume as he’s 28 and this would be his last big contract he may have wanted to see what his options are. Anyway, he got a 4 year deal with Porto which will take him to 32, though he may well move after last nights performance…
SydneyTim
Would every refund come off of PLs bonus ?
If not, then it will be money off of Celtic.
Or do you think that any which doesnt come off of PL should be taken from wee Jamesie ?
The odds of Eddie Howe starting to drift. I have a feeling he’ll be the next Palace manager. The more I read, the more I fancy Enzo Maresca under a DoF.
GEEBEE1978 on 11TH MARCH 2021 7:59 AM
The reality of the situation of EH price drifting is this.
If the Scottish Cup starts, Celtic win their first tie and play a second, then JK will have been in charge for 10 games.
Many firms will therefore on that basis pay out on him as the Winner.
Unless of course the game(s) v the Huns take place.
Unless of course the game(s) v the Huns DON’T take place.
🤦♂️
Having the misfortune to grow up in the North of Ireland, I have observed 2 things when it comes to telling a lie:
(1) Tell it in its most exaggerated form – and smile as you do so
(2) Repeat it often enough, and with the help of those in power, it becomes ‘the truth’
Strange similarity to the tactics of a certain D Trump – same people – same mentality.
SETTING FREE THE BEARS FOR RES. 12 & OSCAR KNOX on 11TH MARCH 2021 12:48 AM
Chairbhoy @ 9:54 pm
‘The bottom line, taken from your own account is that Celtic could do nothing about it and did, in fact, do nothing to aid or hinder it.’
###
Anent The Old Firm Trademark could Celtic have contacted the Administrator/Liquidator (not clear to me which was involved) and said they were interested in acquiring Old Co’s interest in the trademark, and let it be known they would be likely to pay more for it than newco?
That way Celtic would have had total ownership and control.
If nothing else it would have let the Administrator/Liquidator realise that there might be trouble ahead for them if they were selling off assets at undervalue.
Or would that aggressive and proactive approach not have fitted in with Celtic’s long term objectives?
Owning the ‘old firm ‘ trademark is about using the term for merchandise etc. It wouldn’t prevent the press or anyone else using the words or phrase.
I can write a story about Adidas but I’m not infringing the trademark.
An elite bunch…oh deary deary me!
https://twitter.com/gavmacn/status/1369782558729379846?s=07&fbclid=IwAR2WDVo2Aj1AygU7sP_C7TZmSNCNLICGFsNmsDkgokbfmV0G3JsC2d2EbKI
Does anyone really think that one tweet from the media department takes precedence over Mr 35%’s views?:
“Rangers is a great football club, it has a great history and it’s unfortunate that they have been relegated,”
“We would certainly like to contest with them every week
“Rangers is a fantastic football club, it is one of the greatest football clubs in Great Britain, we’ve got to acknowledge that.
SPIDEY101
Surprised hes 28.cant say iv heard much about him.will be looking out for him now.
Ended up watching a few clips on you tube of a guy Paolo Futre,i remember him destroying engurland in 80’s.they called him tbe Portugese Maradonna..amazing dribbling skills..career latterly blighted by injury
Gies a break from all this Rangers Sevco stuff,the bottom line is they are still operating as a Football Club,Time we all turned our attention to our own club,When are new coaches gong to be announced along with a director of football etc,and hopefully Dermot Desmond selling his shares,followed by a few board members,as for the Lennon rumours of him returning as D OF I don’t think the fans would welcome that ,personally I hope he keeps away from Celtic Park or Parkheid.
TIMBHOY2
Rangers died i.e. LIQIDATED in 2012 NEVER EVER let them,our yourself, forget that
“OR YOURSELF forget that”