Results in preseason friendlies are (fortunately) notoriously unreliable indicators of results in competitive games, but Celtic will be alarmed at the scale of the deficit against Greuther Fuerth, from the German second tier, especially after reversals against Sevastopol and Cluj. Clubs from Ukraine, Romania and Germany are apparently organised, even during the summer months.
Next week’s game against Cliftonville is Celtic’s first test, but they will come thick and fast from now on.
Losing a friendly 6-2 brought an unwelcome feeling. Then I wondered how it would have felt to lose a competitive game by the same score to a major rival. Ouch. Made me feel a little better.
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pfayr,
Agreed, they need to be as moronic as the extinct club to fail
I’m about to head for bed as it’s almost midnight here but thinking back to last night’s game, the batman next door (a Rumanian who supports Steaua) was not impressed by Celtic. I told him during the course of the game that our manager treats these games as training exercises to get the team fit. His reply was, “but you are Celtic and are. Being easily beaten by a second division team. This is your third defeat.” As others see us.
Hail! Hail!
Stephbhoy
You can’t spend fortunes on infrastructure with no idea whether it will generate a profit or even be self financing
Wanting hotels etc is a nice idea …..will it benefit the club or just be a drain on already restricted resources
As for shareholders making a few million …aye …
Cowiebhoy
21:21 on
10 July, 2013
natknow – “we welcome the paper-chase…”
21:11 on 10 July, 2013
As stated trying to generate a Celtic debate, and the comments from some for JP to find a successor to Victor.
Fans and media seem to give credit for his finds.
As someone who goes and watches the team closely, I do not see many stars in the claimed JP finds
My opinion
Hail Hail
Cheers mate – just wondered if your view of JP being a success or failure was based on something more than a subjective view of the team. Nothing wrong with that, of course, since everyone will have a subjective view on all things Celtic and as you say other people’s view seems to be that he’s doing a good job.
To take the debate further I think we need more information. For example, on what basis do Celtic judge him? I’m figuring that if he was crap then he wouldn’t be there long. It’s not just the first team places there’s competition for.
Also – to what extent is JP personally responsible for the identification and development of a player? I reckon that what he is actually responsible for is the management of the scouting network that identifies talent. Therefore the whole notion of giving him sole credit for unearthing a diamond is a false premise.
Good topic for debate BTW.
Oops batman = barman.
TOSB
I think it’s human nature for fans to compare who and where he’s playing, instead of in the Hoops.
Like a few others (average crowd 13,000 @ St Mary’s) I’m surprised that we’ve gone from:
“Barca or Real Madrid will defo buy him now after that goal against Barca” to the heady heights, of Southampton in a probable, bottom half struggle.
Where are the big EPL suitors, considering how good Wanyama is perceived, given the fee
we’ve commanded?
PFayr
And a sad loss.
….PFayr, the lack of SPL competition is only one season old, so I’m not sure how that will have made Peter Lawwells job easier for the last number of years.
PL has been in post for many years before that and has implemented a model that works and is sustainable. Not beyond or without criticism, but doing well.
The deals with Nike and Magners are good deals, no?
Returning £100 to every season ticket holder was good for the fans?
For what its worth Henrik highly recommeded bangura to Celtics scouts..dont see him getting it in the neck?the guy didnt get a fair crack imho looked good against the Romanians in the winterbreak game in spain..too many players who have just arrived are getting a hard time on here which is not supporting in any shape or form and is very sad to read.it must be realy difficult for our scouts to get any kind if quality players to come and play in this country as Champions league footy isnt guaranteed with Celtic and after listening to guys like garry hooper saying the huns(deidco)games were a main attraction in him signing for us then that alone shows the difficulties for them.big money days of m.o.n are well gone and some need to realise that and they wont return anytime soon h.h
Doc
Huns were a financial basket case for years ..to say one year is inaccurate
Ill give you the sponsorship deals
The rest is down to football success and selling players …nothing to do with him IMO
Celtic mac
Indeed
I read his last book on holiday last week …very pertinent
Anyone care to remember, the King Kenny senario what was it £400,000. ( now that was a Rip Off ) an that went straight to the Kelly’s and the White’s.Victor’s only in the door an we pocket £11m,some good will come of that, good business when it happens, in this day an age,in this backwater we are in.
Awerabest PJ
So, poiticians’ proposed pay increase….11% ….. do they not make enough from their expenses ?…it is a sad disgrace…. Sickening……
Everyone else suffers as a result of politicians not managing / regulating the Countries finances, but not our honourable politicians ….they get a feckin 11% pay rise…..sick, sick, sick….
canamalar1 21:45
Mid-late 90’s with 50K S/ts – a highly marketable product (CFC) and a TV deal that had close to parity with the then English Div1 – we were a decent investment.
Cue EPL (Pemiership) and Sky throwing obscene payments at the new set-up – our stock almost collapsed overnight.
Sky paid for our ‘Derby’ games period. The ‘Bunnet’ sold out at peak – thereafter TV income went from semi-parity to nondescript.
Today’s share price merely reflects the disparity in income (including dividends) and turnover when compared to the EPL. Compare and contrast offers made to purchase nonentities like; Blackburn, QPR – and the soon to be sold Fulham.
It’s a commodities market – unfortunately we might be ‘green & white’ but we ain’t gold!
fanadpatriot
21:54 on
10 July, 2013
Natknow
YES.
Haha! Care to share then? :-)
Doc, you missed the bit about steering us through a prolonged period of financial doping.
I and many many others could never have done that. -:)
Hail Hail Timland, early rise as of to Manchester in morning
….PFAyr, they were a financial basket case, one which was spending way beyond its means, giving it an unfair financial advantage, that is what made PL’s job more difficult, keeping up financially with a club avoiding tax via EBTs.
….pfayr
22:06 on 10 July, 2013
EVERYTHING to do with him IMO
Jings, crivens, help ma boab!!! I concur fully wi a Kojo post !!!! Sensible, clear, concise and it disnae offend a’body!!
kojo
20:42 on 10 July, 2013
Wanayama is Gone..
It was expected.
Whit?
Sure.. He is Mercenary.
and, He was Bought by us…
In the Fervent Hope.. that .
He wid Turn oot tae be a… Well…. Mercenary!
Ah Do Not Hate.. Soccer Mercenaries..in Fact.. Ah Like ‘em,
They are the Fodder that keeps Teams,such as Celtic .. Who Play in an Environment that is
far Removed from the one, in which they SHOULD PLAY.
and whose Sale… when the time comes…enables them from expiring Soundlessly, owing tae the lack of the Wherwithal.. which they require in order tae.. well..
Remain in Buziness.
Wanyama, by Moving up the Food Chain, has done his Duty..
It’s a Win , Win, Situ…. for All concerned.
Celtic, will gratefully tuck away in the Parkheid Vault.. the Proceeds of Wanyama’s Well-Goatten Sale.
and..
Send it’s Scouts out .. tae Go and Search where No Man has Searched Before.
Searching fur.. You Guessed it..
Another.. Mercenary!
And… They Wull Find one.. Dinnae fear.
and the whole Process wull Start over again.
And that , Gentlemen is how A club like Celtic.. will Manage tae Survive,in this
Dog eat Dog world.
Celtic, of course, hiv no intention of Splurging Much ..if Any at all, of the W.W.
( Wanyama Windfall)
Because.. Celtic, hiv many ither obligations where Some of that wee Bonus… wull be pit tae far Bettah Use..
Like.. Rewarding the Players whom they expect tae Retain in thur Service..
By Awarding those Guys, with a few Mair Extra Spoonful’s of Sugar,in their New And extended Contracts.
and.. that is the way Ah see this Present Scenario tae Play oot.
Celtic, wull No Miss Wanyama.. wan wee Bit.
You will see.
Kojo
Still.. Laughin’
CowieBhoy, see the post after your last, think we made the same point there.
Enjoy Manchester, work I take it?
On the PL debate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExWfh6sGyso
canamalar1 @21.24
I think it was the emergence of the talented young players at Hibernian FC that brought him to notice,he was with Motherwell previously ,but I believe that the majority of this talented group were at the club before he went there.
….PFAyr, on the transfer front, a lesser negotiator would pay more and get back less for players, so I would argue PL does have an input there.
I’m not arguing he is Peter Perfect, but he is Peter very very good.
We could do a lot worse.
Auldheid;-))
Bournesouprecipe
I can see that this VW has had an iact on you by the passion you express in your recent posts. I tend to agree with you on just about everything you post on CQN and I definitely agree with the. View that if we are not selling him to an EPL team who have qualified for Europe then we should hold on to him until the CL qualifiers have been negotiated or otherwise.
My own view is that Lenny’s £25m valuation after the Barca game was a throwaway comment but I think £15m is realistic. The board know the financials better than any of us and are obviously worried that a serious injury may scupper the chance of a fat transfer fee in the same way that it did for Kayal and Izzaguirre. I have accepted that he is going and that supporters can’t affect that outcome so I really don’t care who gives us the money. However, like most Celtic fans I would prefer he stayed and signed a lengthier contract for us.
Our operating model, buy cheap – develop – sell on for profit may secure our long term future but it does nothing for team building. I want Celtic to win the Champions League.
Hail! hail!
Doc, yes to both
& doing 2 days a week down there
Hail Hail
I was privileged to grow up watching Celtic in the late 60’s/early 70’s when we were EXPECTED to beat all comers in all competitions. eg When we played AC Milan at CP in the 2nd leg EC QF following a comfortable 0-0 away, Milan were 8/1 to beat us. They did, and went on to win the trophy for a 3rd time. That was a measure of how highly our team was regarded. The downturn following the departure of Jock Stein was hard to take. The re-emergence of Oldco, combined with the total ineptitude of Celtic’s board, was hellish.
PL has picked up Fergus’s bunnet and IMHO has done a great job. Its a pipedream for us to ever achieve such pre-eminence in Europe; unless a pan European set up comes into play. We must be fiscally prudent yet try to put a team on the park capable of paying European football after Christmas most years. Its a tall order and we should be thankful that those running the club just now seem to be up to the task.
I think NFL would leave the club if he thought that the Board did not share this vision for the club. If, for example, a hefty dividend was paid to shareholders, and none of the VW bonanza put into the team, we could be suspicious. But does the current board have “previous” for this? I don’t think so. Therefore, we should be happy with our progress and look forward with confidence to the coming season. HH
PFayr
Read some extracts from it, and saw his last interview on TV a couple of weeks back, a
bone fide memento mori.
Praecepta,
Plenty to be made from the CL tv rights of your will to fight your corner when you’ve been cheated, unless you can see past the old firm as your only market strategy
If your willing ti fight even
So Big Vic goes to Southampton for money!!!!!!!! absolutely not ambition. He didn’t really want to go there but I suppose chasing the pound is what we can expect.
Loosing Big Vic is not a problem for me, mercenary foreign players will come and go but what does concern me is the thought of the type of club we loose players to.
Arsenal, manure, Liverpool I would have no problem with . They are all clubs with pedigree and stature, substantial clubs similar to us.
But Southampton?????
My God!!!
IMO Big Peter has no option now but to get Hoops secured on a deal of similar pay to Broonie and Joe.
If not , this is the green light for any two bit club with a couple of bob to plunder our finest.
If we do sell it MUST be on our terms.
Hopefully we can unearth another gem to replace Vic but hopefully not with the scattergun approach that saw us buying Bangura/Lassaad/ etc.
We are CELTIC and big Peter although doing a fine job with the finances should realise that at times we need to invest in proven players and not always unknown entities.
I hope and pray we know what we are doing
Hail Hail
Therin lies the problem. Wee buy 2 or 3 for a couoke mill and don’t get a return.
Mon was a prime example.
As soon as he went to million pound olayers we got laursen fernandez etc… I know agathe was an exception.
How is it we all want Celtic to do more with the tem, stadium and triangle, but criticise them for making the money that might help them make these improvements, yes big Vic was a good player for us but I don’t think he would make or hreak or champions league progression, lets see what happens with the money before we jump to conclusions
Clashcitybhoy 20.43
You make a very good suggestion.
TT
gherrybhoy57
22:20 on 10 July, 2013
Nice sensible post! Agree with you.
….PFayr
if we are the worldwide brand we are continually told and we have the superb business men, we are told then it should not be a problem.
I actually think that the new building being proposed in the celtic triangle, that will house the superstore, museum, ticket office, celtic pools and office space etc… will be more cost efficient than the current set up were we have several poorly designed buildings scattered in the envois of the stadium and in the stadium itself, that for me is a no brainer.
I hardly think its a risk to build a sports bar given that most all celtic away and European games are on t.v. and we average 40,000 + crowds every fortnight, while the human traffic in that area is about to increase with 1500 new homes being build in the immediate area, as well as the new sports facilities that will regularly host events, as well as, players functions, fans functions etc…
a supporters barn would only be open during match days to house supporters pre- post games and is effectively a big empty covered space that give supporters a place to meet and spent time, rather than sitting in the ran or in their cars, again its a no brainer.
clearly hotel and office spaces would be dependent on the economic situation, but its worth noting that Kilmarnock run a successful hotel in their very small location, with not even a 1% of the total brand awareness of celtic etc… so if they can do it, why the hell cant we, we do have supporters travelling far and wide from within and outwith the celtic family, supporters and teams, players coming on trial etc…
I am not saying I have all the answers but we have had the good times under MON were every penny was spent on the team and what happened? we ran out of money we could not hold onto players and we were left with a poor team. clearly that plan failed to generate the income on a sustainable basis.
Cowiebhoy
Im driving down on the morning of 22nd … will be staying in the trafford West premier that night and 23rd. Driving back up on 24th
PF
Just seen your mail and responded. Looks like 8 of us for sat, for definite.